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REPOST: Disarm topic from GenDiscussion

REPOSTED FROM GENERAL

Lucifer
Posted on 2:00 am on June 8, 2004

does it really make sense to disarm anymore… since people just pick it up?

Would it make more sense for there to be a bigger negative mod to picking something up during combat than just losing a turn?

I dunno... makes sense in my head... somewhat. But that isn't saying much.

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Biohazard
Posted on 6:15 am on June 8, 2004

Disam them, then pick it up yourself.

�----

Hirononbu
Posted on 7:22 am on June 8, 2004

That, too, should be difficult to do during combat.



–--

Now then…

I do agree with Lucifer in this. I think there should be a more 'combat action used' or 'balanced' when you do things.

I belive as it stands, disarm costs 2 combat rounds, rendering it virtually useless. There is a reasoning behind why we put in a combat round penalty for disamr. It was getting -MASSIVE- abuse. We were basically monitoring combat constantly because people would Twink out and spamtype or trigger type 'disarm' like mad while -still- being able to attack.

But as is, disarm appears to be less than useful, you gain no real edge over it unless you 'take' the weapon away. In a lot of respects this is -very- realistic. If you get into a knife fight, and strip the knife from your opponent, and it lands on the ground, there is a good bloody chance they'll move to pick it up. That being said, it requires a 'strategic' move to regain the weapon.

Perhaps the simplest solution would be to make -any- action within combat use up a combat round. I do not know if that is simple to code, but I am sure it would be possible. That would mean any time you posture shift, take, disarm. Perhaps even SIC...all these would cost a 'combat round'.

Another option would be to re-instate the 'wrest' command into combat, so you could attempt to 'strip' the weapon into your possetion. It is a possibility, and I imagine it would require a great deal of tweaking to balance out in combat situations...

Do share your thoughts on this.

I like the loose a round to retrieve the weapon idea. It would show that desperately attempt to get the weapon, by jumping over it. But I would also add a penalty to defence as the person does it.

You change your focus from the fight and into the object and most of the times you'll have to at least bend over to grab it. Giving your opponent a great view of your ass to kick it.

Exactly what I was going to say.  If your going to pick up the weapon.. You either dive after it, bend down, roll and grab it.. jump to catch it before it falls.. all those things are going to leave you pretty open to attack.  -As- would picking it up if you were the one that disarmed the person in the first place.  Basicly once the weapon is knocked out of the persons hand, its who can type 'Get whatever' faster, and suffice to say, if your the one disarming you could have copy and pasted 'get whatever' before hand.  Maybe it could even do an agil check if both characters did 'get whatever' in the same combat round.  Meaning like, it would Queue get command untill the end of the combat round, do an agil check, and see who gets there faster.  
not only that, but maybe even just have a check peroid.  Like if your scrambling for a weapon in a high-stress situation, you -may- drop it regardless of wether the other person goes for it or not… could depend on your posture too, like if you go for the item but are defensive, trying to watch your ass in the process of getting said item, than it may be harder to get than if your Kamikaze and all your focused on is re-arming yourself.  

since SIC is literally brainwaves being transfered that shoudn't cost a turn unless your sicing 3-5 messages a round or something.

Well, using the SIC is second nature to most people I would think.  Like talking, you could talk while you were fighting, it wouldn't always be choerent.. but.. thats an RP thing.  Don't be sending detailed messages while your battling for you life.  It's more like..

HELP!  Billy attacking!  Fuller.. and.. Lamb.. Ahhh…

I think something should really be done about this…because as of now its up to whoever types the fastest. Usually, I'd be the first to say "Leave it up to the Players" but that doesn't work and it makes unarmed combat just a bit more shitty. Perhaps there should be a possibility of the item flying out of the room? Or maybe it should just lie on the ground "Out of reach" of the combatants...or maybe people shouldn't twink out...
"or maybe people shouldn't twink out…"

What's the likelyhood of that?

Maybe a disarm can do some damage? I mean, when I smack gats out of sucka's hands wif my ball bat, maybe it should bust they gat? Or their bones so they cant make a grab! bwah.

Broken bones is a little brutal, but a nice bruise on there hand might be good.
I kinda like the idea of fucking up someone and them not being able to grab their weapon cause every time they reach for it they get hit.. if they aint fast enough to dodge it..
I like that idea, if the character has to dodge/parry the next attack to be able to reach their weapon, and if they didn't, they wouldn't be able to get it.   If this was the case though, I think disarming someone should be a bit harder..

I also like the idea of lowering the persons defense for the next combat round, except that when you disarm someone, you lose a combat round.. so it really wouldn't effect one on one fights.  It would only help you if you were gang jumping someone,

Perhaps it could be coded so that the MOO remembers what weapon was disarmed, and moving to get -that- weapon would cost your defense for two rounds, but simply pulling another weapon would only lower it for a single round..

Like deciding to dig for a spare stilleto when the one you usually use gets nocked out of your hands… You know, I've seen someone get shot in the hand going for a dropped weapon, but it was just a coincidence, would have been cool if that was how it was supposed to be.... it was great and it was played off nicely.
Disarming could start a whole new section of combat… a segway into what could be a new form of combat if you will.

Disarming someone becomes like an attack, its queued until your next combat round.

The same would be said about picking things up, fleeing, grappling, etc. They no longer are seperate actions, but become integrated into the combat queue.

It would take some reorganization of some code, but it makes more sense.

On that same note, you can add mods to doing actions. For instance, picking something up in combat, unless you critically succeed, makes you prone to an attack as well as increases the chances of a crit hit.

The same could apply for failing, you fail miserably and you -will- get critically hit.

It also opens up the opportunity for people to 'block' such actions. All it really does is keep everything in line and under the same system. It becomes easier to control and easier to add actions and such to combat.

Any ideas/comments on it?

Sounds delicious.

Grappling could definetly use some work too, incorporating diffrent types of locks which would dare I say break bones if the attack chose too, along with weapons…I mean you grapple someone by all means you should be able to point your gun at his skull and say "Hey bub, stop figeting or else..."

Of course, such advantages should have equal and opposite disadvantages...but I'm really just off on a tangent.

I'm pro reorganization and spliffy thingies, needless to say.

Quote: from ReeferMadness on 5:16 am on Aug. 11, 2005[br]I'm pro reorganization and spliffy thingies, needless to say.

…don't you mean spiffy?

*amused*

Spiff   Audio pronunciation of "spiff" ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (spf) Informal
tr.v. spiffed, spiff�ing, spiffs

   To make attractive, stylish, or up-to-date: spiffed up the the old storefront.


Spliff   Audio pronunciation of "spliff" ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (splf)
n. Slang

   A marijuana cigarette.

I think not. :stoner2:

Oh, and you say that like you think I don't know.

(I admit, I didn't make myself as clear as I wanted to, dammit. I'm still tired and the lecturer babbling in my ear isn't helping much.)

I agree it could use some reorginzation.  I mean, when in reality is someone going to get close enough to another human holding a sub machine gun with a hair trigger to 'grapple' them.. and when's the last time someone holding a katana didn't dismember the person trying to 'grapple' them..

I would love too see a failed grapple attempt result in a 'counter attack' type manuever.

"Grappling" someone with a melee weapon (including a sword) is certainly alot easier then someone holding a gun. The key is simply avoiding an attack, so you would be able to move in on your oppenent locking his attempts to move up. Although when such an opponent is holding a weapon things become significantly difficult. Regarding gun defenses, meh…ask Iga he might know.

The current "Grappling" system in place is distinctly and most of the martial arts attack are as well. Granted, its easy to say "No kung fu master is gonna touch me while I'm _____ ". I'd beg to differ, from the few seminars I've done I've seen and met some pretty crazy people but such things are very style specific. For instance, I think Tae Kwon Do is for pussies. Why? Have any of you ever tried kicking someone above the waist in a street fight? (Muay Thai fighters excluded :cheesy:) And Tai Chi is possibly the most formidable fighting system ever designed. Granted, it takes about 30 years to be considered a novice. But alas...this is a crazy tangent and its early so back to grappling before I tell everyone that martial arts skill should nothing to do with stats (or perhaps the stats you'd expect).

Grappling isn't about bear hugging your opponent, its about using pressure points and joint locks to inflict so much pain that they don't wanna move because if they do they're gonna be in a world of hurt. I don't think its really ideal to code such a system but meh, just though I'd mention before everyone starts bashing this stuff.

But I will agree on one point, when disarming or grabbing an opponent with a weapon. Error usually mean getting stabbed, shot, clubbed, what have you.  But on the flip I've been hurled 10 feet into walls by a little italian guy a foot shorter then me who simply redirected one of my punches.

Wow, I have no idea what point any of this served...but I gotta make some coffee.

Quote: from Wren on 12:37 pm on Aug. 10, 2005[br]
Disarming someone becomes like an attack, its queued until your next combat round.

The same would be said about picking things up, fleeing, grappling, etc. They no longer are seperate actions, but become integrated into the combat queue.

Yes … this is what $action (The Action System) is all about. No recoding of combat is really needed, just better use of $action. Grep is your friend.