Acting like a big kid.
Civility. It's the new cool thing to do.

I would say that in general I ignore the boards. I come here to RP a cyberpunk game, do biz, get killed, shoot stuff, etc. I really have a lot of fun ICly. Once in a while I scroll down the boards, dipping my toes into the OOC, and I find a lot of the boards are hit with the same problem by a handful of people, albeit a small minority.

It often times shakes out like:

Person A: Here's what I think.

Person B: You don't know what you're talking about. Shut up. Keep your ignorant thoughts to yourself.

Person A: Fuck YOU! You're the one who doesn't know shit, FUUUUCK YOU!

Then the thread basically devolves into a shit fit of mud slinging and the whole point of the idea or meme or whatever is gone, until some poor admin has to come and put everybody on time out.

Without trying to get too preachy, can I suggest that everyone who takes part in the boards do the following:

Write your post.

Take a breath.

Read your post to yourself.

Think to yourself, "Would I like to be spoken to like this?"

Edit the post to a point where the answer is "Yes, this seems like a respectful statement that I would enjoy reading."

Post.

If you can't write a post/response/etc. that isn't respectful, maybe just don't post. It's an internet forum, not a big deal, sorry to be so cliche but...can't we all just be friends?

There's no reason people need to be rude to each other. I feel like maybe the people doing it, of whom there are 4-5 recently, don't realize they're doing it, which is probably why it's an issue to begin with.

It's pretty simple, though. Don't speak to other people in a way you wouldn't want to be spoken to.

Also on the agenda:

- If 5000 people tell you you're wrong, maybe consider for a moment that you might be wrong, not that they're attacking you and you need to counter-punch.

- The way you present your arguments can completely turn people off from the content of what you're saying.

I've seen some people try and give good arguments out for some things here in the forums but they come off as arrogant or asses, which makes nobody take them seriously and just devolves into not so productive times. I think everyone should re-read what they type a few times and make sure they're not coming off as such and just, come off productively. We're all friends here. At least OOCly.

First off, to the involved party... Not naming to avoid bringing more attention to them or the event in question. Apologies, I got heated during that exchange. I got rightly told off for it by a lot of people. I'm trying to be calmer and more rational, and take the words of people like Slither to heart on these forums.

Second off, as I had to explain to staff that I legitimately didn't know they were who I was referencing until they smashed me that data over xhelp. That I made it as a reference to that character. Not as a reference to -their- character. Had a moment of panic about it when staff brought it up to me, because I normally don't care about who characters and players are. And I don't tend to collect that information.

I was also quick to provide staff with a list of the players who I did know off the top of my head definitively who their character(s) was( or were.) It could be counted on around one hand. Maybe one and a half. I also don't keep logs so I can't remember all of my responses here. I just remember being freaked out and feeling skeezed at myself, for the sheer fuckery that it must have looked like.

Third off, I appreciate the sense of levity and community in some places I've seen recently and I'm personally trying to be friendlier and less of a salt golem both on OOC and on the BGBB. I hope to continue these strides. However I do tend to do the shitty autism feature of tone matching. Where I will match the perceived tone of the conversation coming at me. I'm learning to monitor this, and come off more consistently pleasant or just not at all if I have nothing to contribute.

Fuck sorry for the novella.

^ This says it all, thanks Grizzly.

If I could describe what I see happening that's causing people to get salty, it would be to say that we have a number of newer players (like, less than year of experience) who post ideas and then get very defensive, sometimes militantly defensive, when other players point out counter-arguments to their suggestion or try to give them advice on how to solve the issues they're having via IC means/making playstyle changes.

I've gotten the sense this defensiveness might be a reaction to perceived snarkiness on the part of people putting their two chy in, or being told that because they're new to the game their opinion hasn't been colored by the same experience as more seasoned players (which can easily sound like, you're new so your opinion doesn't matter).

Meanwhile the more experienced players trying to provide counter-arguments and point people in what they see as the right direction are likely getting frustrated at their time/energy being outright dismissed by the defensiveness of the original posters, causing them to up their own saltiness.

So! With that it mind, a few more things to consider/remember:

1. Lots of things on the ideas board do make it into the game. If people are providing counter-arguments, it's not to attack -you-, the poster. It's because they have concerns about your idea or wouldn't want to see it implemented in the form you've described and they want to add their voice to the equation, which is completely their right.

2. As Grizzly said, no matter who you are, from Mix Legend to day one immy, we should all remember that other people/other perspectives are capable of having valid points. None of us knows everything or is aware of everything. Even senior admin who know every in and out of the game don't always know how each individual feature is being played in the wild, which is why they source lots of opinions.

3. As soon as you attack someone, you kind of throw your argument out the window. That's all they'll see, and it may be all everyone else sees, too.

4. There's no one metric every idea gets judged by. You'll see people make arguments for realism, other people make arguments for game balance, other people make arguments for fun. I'm pretty sure ideas have been included in the game for all these reasons. There will be internal contradictions to all of them, as well. Some things in the game aren't realistic, other things aren't balanced (eg, not every skill is equally useful), other things aren't fun.

5. Perhaps most importantly, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I feel like most of the aggression we see is ultimately a response to people feeling like what they say/think isn't being valued. But like, just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean what you're offering isn't valued, it just means everyone has their own opinion, they don't always match, and the forums are specifically a place where opinions that don't match are going to come into contact with each other, so it's incumbent on everyone to be in a healthy mindset for that.

The vehicle thread is a good example of this. The initial topic was "auto mechanics need more RP opportunities" which spiraled into "we don't need vehicle theft to be any more powerful, just xhelp before stealing a vehicle" and caused a huge kerfuffle which was full of negativity and practically nothing on-topic. Crooknose and a few others tried to pull it back on topic but the thread had become so irredeemable that a new one had to be created.

This isn't a one-time instance. I've seen it happen plenty of times.

I think taking the time to understand the original idea would go far in making ideas threads a lot more productive and on-topic.