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Bitching about 'balance' in ideas
Let other people shine, solos.

So I've been seeing complaints about how "X or Y is broken, and completely unbalances the game, because can't just beat them down automatically!" since I started playing, and I've played through and explored the system, and I've listened and given my own feedback on the subject, and what I have arrived at it thus...

Support skills are absolutely broken because they involve teamwork, and solo PvPers hate it.

There is one collection of skills in the game that allows you to exert your will over other players with singular investment, and that's cool. that's the rock in rock, paper, scissors. But there needs to be a paper and a scissors for balance to even exist, and that is a collective of versatile support characters working to enhance the 'hurr durr kill baka' archetypes.

So please, tell me how I'm wrong and "This is completely unbalanced!" So much so that only two or three people even try to do it at a time, while throwing rocks from your group of like-skill users who clearly aren't playing a specific meta with the expectation of no outside challengers.

I agree, even though I probably prompted the complaint.

In general I think balance concerns are poor counter-arguments to new ideas, because ultimately balance can be restored by a function of math and new ideas add to game features, and featureful systems makes for a better game moreso than just good balance does.

Despite the fact that I just did it in another thread, I don't feel like I'm making particularly strong arguments overall if I write 'X needs to be better' or 'Y shouldn't be improved'. Good ideas are ultimately good ideas, balance can follow.

I also agree that the overall game is somewhat balanced around combat characters, and there is sometimes a certain amount of resistance from players to ideas which would improve some archetypes at the notional expense of combat archetypes. I do think that some of this resistance tends to exaggerate the negative impacts improvements to support skills would have, and it does tend to downplay how powerful combat archetypes are overall.

I am just as guilty of viewing the game and the game balance through the lens of combat and conflictive competition, and how certain elements will give advantages or disadvantages to whatever aspect of that. Who benefits, who loses, how does it effect the chessboard overall.

I think it's important to be cognizant of this perspective, so things don't get wildly unbalanced and one or another factions get wiped out suddenly, but I agree that these archetypes don't always need to be the first concern for every balancing discussion.

If you don't want your ideas contradicted or holes poked in the dangers of their implementation, then consider how your ideas would affect PvP in general.

And by PvP, I don't just mean combat either. I mean the entire scope of Cooperative Competition.

No one is mad at support characters. No one is upset by challenge. What they're upset by are suggested boosts to skills with no trade-off involved, especially when those suggestions come from a personal agenda. If you feel like this is coming from primarily combat players, then it's likely because their risk/reward is hard-baked into the archetype and they recognize the importance of it.

So stop bitching about 'balance' yourself if you can't consider how ideas might affect things holistically, or at the very least, respect the people who do care about this.

Posts with a tone like this don't help either.

I do not believe this thread should continue, at least not in its current tone.

I understand that players may feel upset about how eachother come across, but please, keep it civil.