Bush

They say Bush will address the fact that no weapons of mass destruction have been found in Iraq and that U.S. troops continue to be killed there. (U.S. death toll in Iraq tops 500)

Bush will make the case that the United States faces a real threat of another terrorist attack, aides said.

Imagine a government who steals from the poor and gives to the rich.

Bush also will urge Congress to change the law so that a portion of Social Security payroll taxes can be invested in the stock market and other private investments accounts.

Imagine loosing 30 million jobs nation wide, then opening the door for illegal immigrant workers who willingly accept less pay for the same work.

He will reiterate his recent call for a temporary guest worker program under which millions of illegal immigrants could get temporary legal status in the United States.

Imagine being one of the richest nations in the world, and being the only one without universal health-care.

And he will support proposals to reduce health-care costs.

Imagine watching the largest budget surplus in history turn into the largest deficit, and having the responsible party being in denial about it because his personal agenda is benefiting.

The president will focus on domestic issues and the economy, crediting his tax cuts for bringing the economy out of recession, and arguing that they should be made permanent.

Sound unimaginable? It should be.

And that�s just from this one article. Imagine if I were to pull in others� I didn't even touch on the environment, or education; they wern't mentioned here.

-Kevlar

(Shamelessly stolen from 'Imagine� from the Bush In 30 Seconds Ad campaign by MoveOn.org (www.bushin30seconds.com)).

(Edited by Kevlar at 12:38 pm on Jan. 20, 2004)

I did catch bits of it.

What I did catch worried me greatly.

So, in light of all the crap going on, and the fact that the mad cows in Canada came originally from herds in Montana (not that it really matters, because Mad Cow disease is cause by what you feed cows, not by cows hanging out with each other. See, Mad Cow, or BSE as they actually call it, is not a 'disease' perse. It is actually a radical protine with a modified molecular structure that, when in the presence of normal protines, causes other protine chains to break down. What happens is a cow with these protines litterally has a brain full of holes, like swiss cheese, hence the madness. These protines come from improperly feeding animals. And what is this substance that is fed to cows that causes the problem? Why, it is other COW! That's right, they take the bones and waste tissue from slaughtered cows, grind it up, and re-feed it to pigs, cattle, and chicken. Then they take the wastes from those animals, grind it up and feed it to pigs, chicken, and cattle. So what is happening is that the cattle and agriculture industries are breeding cannibals in the animal population, which is the root cause of the radical BSE protine.)

Ahem.

Yes. End rant on BSE.

As to the speech, I skipped most of it. I watched snippets. Anyhow, I digressed, in light of the situations in the Unites States, I have decided to become a member of the Corporate Reich. (Actually, I started the corporate reich…but...ummm....)

Yes.

Ummm.

Anyhow...err...what the hell was I talking about here? I really gotta lay of the BSE Infected protines....

Oh! YES!

I don't know if anyone has noticed, but the US Greenback is falling appart on the money markets. The Canadian Dollar is up, the Euro is at it's highest ever, the Sound Pound is pounding allong, even the -YEN- is gaining strength compaired to the US Dollar.

So, as a non-american interested in getting rid of Corporate Openended Capitalism, I say VOTE BUSH! VOTE BUSH! VOTE REPUBLICAN! Let the Fascist corporate lobbiests take over! Let the lay-offs at GM and Chevrolet continue! Bring on StarWars defense systems, and MASSIVELY expensive missile defense sheilds that will stop any ICBM's ever launched at the US and friendly nations. Waste the money faster! VOTE BUSH!

*Throws up his hands in a Victory sign, fingers in a wide 'V'*

IN BUSH WE SHALL BE RICH, TERRORISM SHALL FALL, AND WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION WILL ONLY BE FOUND IN AMERICA!! VOTE BUSH!!

*bows and leaves the forum a raging republican*

The one redeeming factor (sort of).  The war in iraq.  Yes no weapons of mass destruction were found, and yes I think that we probibaly never should have gone in the first place, but….   Saddam is a worthless piece of shit who should be stopped.   So do the ends justify the means?   hmm.... dunno... but it's not all bad.  oh, except for that whole pretty much telling nato "we don't give a fuck what you think" part.

Not all bad? For whom?

For the soldiers? 500 dead, combat pay cut in half, and no health care? I guess it's not all bad. I mean we won the war… didn't we? So they'll stop dying at the rate of almost one a day now, right?

For the people of Iraq? 8,000 dead, and occupation by a foreign power? At least we solved their pest problem and cleared out those holes in the ground. Now we just gotta whip a little democracy and industry on them <cough-cough-wheeze>, and it won't be all bad.

The nation?  Millions of jobs lost, $455 billion in federal deficit, the PATRIOT Act to take away our rights, and 3 friends left in the UN. Three. Down from how many? And this guy's worried about getting a Constutional ammendment to prevent gay marriges because his sexuality and spirituality is threatened?

Ohh... you must mean for the corporations, who had a puppet in the oval office who would cater to their special interests while bold face lying to the public. The same corperations who were able to jack prices through the roof and are keeping them there, after starting a war which you say, "probibaly never should have gone in the first place" (sic).

Yeah. I guess it wasn't all bad for them.

-Kevlar

2) No, it isn't just from brain and spinal matter.

3) Ground beef and hot dogs anyone?

On Operation: Iraq Liberation (OIL)
1) Two words. Geneva. Conventions.

The same Geneva conventions that the United States screamed about when Saddam had US POW's on TV. Yet as soon as they had Saddam, out comes the humiliation and propaganda. This portion of the Geneva conventions and international law is very clear. You can not use captured war criminals for propaganda. Period.

You also can not unilaterally move against another nation.

You also can not invade a nation without it having attacked you first. In fact, I think the law is that you can not enter a -WAR- without being attacked first.

Guantanomo Bay. No trial. No rights. No proper living conditions. It's little more than a Korean War POW camp on the shores of Cuba.

shall I go on?

2) Four words. Weapons. Of. Mass. Destruction.

Ummm…okay. So these weapons are 'illegal' and 'amoral' and 'evil evil evil spawned by satan' right?

Ummm...why does the USA have 21,000 NUCLEAR war heads? And THOUSANDS of TONS of biological agents? Nerve gasses? Factories breeding new and more painful forms of Ebola?

On the NRA and Guns.
1) The NRA is evil. It is pure, sick evil.

2) Go watch 'Bowling for Columbine'

3) Canada has more guns per capita than the United States, yet we have what, 1/20th the ammount of fire arms related deaths. Chew on that NRA, chew on it damn good. I ask you, why the fuck does anyone need to own a Hand gun? Give me ONE good fucking reason. A rifle, sure, go out hunting. A hand gun? Useless on a deer. Only good for maiming, killing, and destroying human lives. On top of that, 90% of handgun owners -DO NOT KNOW HOW TO USE A HANDGUN!!-

On the Leadership of Saddam:
1) Well, the better question is why did the American government put Saddam in power in the first place. Yeah, sure, we all make mistakes, but come on...this is as big a fuck up as when the United States helped put the Aihatola's in power.

On telling groups like NATO to blow off:
1) NATO and the UN. Nato is nothing. It's a crazy war mongering pact. Blowing them off would be a great thing, except for one of the first times in history NATO was calling for caution and peace.

Blowing the UN off. Well, what can you expect from a nation that hasn't paid it's dues in 15 years. I say the US should loose its security council seat.

And in conclusion:

VOTE BUSH! VOTE BUSH! For the REPUBLICANS shalt saveth all our souls!

Quote: from Iga on 12:33 am on Jan. 23, 2004[br] I ask you, why the fuck does anyone need to own a Hand gun? Give me ONE good fucking reason. A rifle, sure, go out hunting.

So killing the supremely dangerous, man-eating beastly dear is a good reason people need guns? People need to go out into the woods and take half-assed pot shots at defenseless woodland creatures, often taking more than one shot to kill making it brutally inhumane? They need to go out and kill animals? What, to feed themselves? Bullshit. If it was necessary for people to hunt to feed themselves, there wouldn't be such a thing as a hunting season and hunting license. Where's my supermarket shopping license? When's corner store season?

Need guns to go hunting…pah.

I ask you, why the fuck does anyone need to own a Hand gun?

I don't need to own one. And I don't.

But I'll defend my right to.

That's the premice on which this country was founded: Freedom of choise.

It's no different than:
"I don't agree with a single word you are saying, but I'll defend until my death your right of saying them" - Voltaire

Words? Guns? What's the difference any more these days? Both can be wielded with intention to cause harm and death. Should we outlaw speech because I can hurt someone with it? Or is it possible that speech might be used for good purposes? There's allready laws against hurting someone and killing someone, and that covers guns AND speech, dosn't it?

If we outlawed guns, only outlaws would have guns.

'Course if we outlawed marrige, only outlaws would have inlaws. That might not be such a bad thing. ;)

As for Saddam: I said we cleared out their pest problem and cleaned up thoes holes in the ground. I suppose we were obligated to do it, seeing as how we created the problem in the first place! I don't know what you call it when you install a leader in a forign country to serve your interests, then are forced to remove him because he turned against you, but I sure as hell don't call it things like 'Good'.

No, I don't think Gore or Clinton could have gone about it any better. I think we should own up to creating the problem in the first place and not be so quick to give outselves a big pat on the back and declare victory for a one sided war we created. It's a good thing that we captured Saddam, and their country is rid of him. But that dosn't even begin to compare with the bad things that we did. Two wrongs don't make a right, and one right dosn't erase a ton of wrongs. If we only talk about the one thing we did right, and never compare it to the things we did wrong, we just might convince ourselves that this whole thing is O.K.

"Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth." -Franklin Roosevelt

-Kevlar

I didn't say anything about my right to 'easily obtain one'. Not everyone should be allowed. We do need to protect ourselves from our own stupidity.

-Kevlar

To get one you have to be fully liscenced and registered, and have a clean crimminal record, and you have to be certified to have passed a basic gun safety and maintanace course as well as have a minimal ammount of live firing time.

(It is called an F.A.C - Firearms Aquisition Certificate)

Now. Jotun. You -KNOW- that 90% of the moms and dads out there in America land don't know how to properly shoot and care for a gun. Setting up a garbage can and taking pot-shots is not training. Neither is shooting at road signs from a moving truck.

I'm talking about a 200 page book of instructions and common sense rules, coupled with a minimum of 20 hours of training time with a liscenced instructor.

That's what you have to do in Canada to get a Handgun. You have to be -TRAINED-.

No lets stop this silly logic of 'if you outlaw guns only criminals would have em' thinking.

It's pointless. Why? Because the majority of 'illegal' fire arms are 'stolen' from people who legally BOUGHT them. So by selling LESS guns to the average shmuck, who will stand a good chance of loosing it to some criminal anyhow, and who can't shoot anyway, is going to LOWER the number of guns in the criminal populace. Selling MORE guns to people will just put MORE guns into the hands of CRIMINALS who aren't buying them anyhow.

And I take you up on that challenge Jotun. Here are some simple questions:

1) How do you properly store a handgun?
2) What is the most important thing to remember when using a handgun or rifle on a shooting range?
3) (this one is tricky) What is the proper way to hold a handgun for shooting.
4) What is the -safest- position to carry a rifle.
5) What are the three forms of miss-fire with a handgun, and how do you fix the problem?

There. Five really simple questions. Have at it, I dare anyone.

Wait...isn't this topic about Bush?

VOTE REPUBLICAN!! WHOO!!

:P

Grab 100 random people who are gun owners, and see who actually keeps them stored safely, and see who can use them properly.

As to crazies, I'd rather face a crazy with a stick than a crazy with a handgun. Any day of the week. And the solution to crime is easy.

Feed the people. Provide social services from cradle to grave. Educate the populace. Shelter the populace. Create pride within the populace. Guide the populace with a set of moral codes coupled with an effective legal structure.

See.

Simple.

My book on the subject will be published in about 5 years, look for it on shelves everywhere.

1: Well, you got the maintance part, but not the safety. 1/3 points

2: Bang on, treat it as if it is loaded followed by a healthy dose of muzzle control. 2/2

3: That is one way, yes. Not how I was trained, but that is a fairly standard manner. Except one thing. You failed to mention you have to use TWO HANDS for proper safety! 1/2

Kevlar's score: 4/7

(God that Iga guy is a sarcastic bastard)

Ratta-tat-tat mo fuggah

But how's this for an idea. It came to me, as most other things do, rather randomly as I wandered around the Metropolitan Museum of Art one day. I'm not saying its a good idea, or that it would pose a solution to the issues we have today.

Anna's theoretical military: Everyone has a gun, but the gun only has one bullet.

Ok, laugh.
Really. I have no idea what I'm talking about.

I did find it funny, however, when on Bowling for Columbine they mentioned how there was 1 fatal shooting in the Toronto area in the past two years, or something to that extent, and it was a guy from Detroit.

They pretty much showed (as have other things i've read and seen) that guns themselves and having guns aren't the problem.  The last bill that Clinton signed tightening gun laws hasn't helped at all.  The people that use guns in illegal ways get them by illegal means and gun laws have no effect on them.  I saw an interview and what deters criminals the most from using guns what scares them the most is not knowing if the victim may or may not havea  gun.  Crime is Down and something like 30+ of the states give people the right to carry handguns concealed.  

So this movie shows this side of things, that guns aren't the issue...and then they go and make Charleton heston look like an ass (Which he was, the guy was totally on his side asking the questions he asked) and then the whole thing at Kmart...*shrugs*  

I think Jotun's right...education is almost always better than prohibition.  

Again i'm no expert, i've heard/read some things but whatev :P

-Oakie

I doubt you have ever signed up for a license, but it does cost money, and were does that money go? It goes to the parks and the outdoors and the parks.  I think that you like many people see the one sided view of what hunters really are. You dont see the courses you have to take to get a hunters education license.

Next, every year animals do die, but if they werent any hunters the animals would take up more grass, causing more to suffer for months until death from overpopulation and starvation, therefore I would think that the poor suffering animals may suffer for 5 minutes at the hand of hunters but if they arent hunted they starve and die very very slowly.

Therefore, I do think that people should be allowed to have guns, but maybe  the laws mentioned earlier should tightened, not to the extent to were you couldnt have ever had any sort of trouble with the law, but like just to the point were anything over a misdemeanor it would become harder and harder for you to get one to the point to were you just cant get a gun legally.

So, in conclusion hunters bring up a good thing in our country and dont stereotype us cause you have heard the few stories of bad hunters or even poachers, because that is a small percent of the whole percentage. And maybe weapons should be a little harder to get I agree, but it shouldnt just be that all people that hunt are inhumane people and take 5 shots at an animal before killing it because every big game animal I have ever shot at, has been a one shot one kill deal. And all of my friends and neighbors that hunt, have killed 99% of what they have shot at in 1 shot.

Guns ain't hard to get ahold of.  And laws don't do a damn thing.  Heh.

I'm not even going to get into why he rented it.  *cough*.

And man Bush... eh,   I really used to support him (looking back I don't know why..)  but I think I want to Vote Independent in an attempt to send a message to the major parties that they need to stop offering up such shitty canidates.