Its all related and observations of someone new

I'll apologise in advance if the lack of criminal mentality on the part of the human behind Max, or anything else for that matter is preventing me from seeing something obvious to others but ..

Cost of clones, lack of crime, poor RP, it's all inter-related. �As stated earlier by many many people (but just to provide a refresher)

1)Petty crime does not pay.
2)Big crime does pay, when done right/smart/white collar/fraud/whatever.
3)Be smart

After reading the boards and thinking about the opinions and facts expressed, as well as playing for the last 2 months or so here are a

few conclusions that I have come up with.

There seems to be two types of PCs who are regularly to be found in the dome. �Newer players of various abilities and established vetrans like Luc, Moss … that no player -not- of that caliber, (or really even several newer ones) could even think about taking down be it a robbery, collecting on a murder contract, whatever.

Why not you ask? �Simple, getting the kind of weapons needed to overpower the stats and armor that these kind of charachters have takes chyen, and lots of it. �More that can be (realistically) made running for Bruce, working for City Services etc. �Max was quoted a price of better than 4 weeks pay for a *decent* firearm. �That's better than 4 weeks without paying the rent, no, food, no smokes, no beer at the Drome, nothing but paying for a weapon. So what's a good cyberpunk to do? �Resort to crime. �If they want to do something bad enough, they have to resort to petty crimes in order to raise the extra chyen to get the goods needed to do the big job. �Sure, Max could see someone who would be *happy* to lend him the chyen, but the first time some desperate newer PC does knife him from behind/put a contract out on him/kill him in his sleep when I get dropped by my isp, he's out the weapon, and still has to pay back the loan. �Not very smart.

At 5k per clone, (a weeks salary for Max) unless the charachter is really desparate, petty crime against evenly matched (awake) PCs is automatically a high risk low potential yield proposition. �Unless a PC is known to have a valuable item on them or they leave their room open, whatcha' gonna' do? �Risk getting killed to pick a few chyen out of someone's pocket? �Follow them around sneaking in the shadows and knife them for what little they have? �So unless they want to take that high-risk, low potential yield chance, they -must- (as Max has been told) keep their head down/neck in order to survive. �Not the best situation for RP and a bit of a catch-22.

So if one PC can't really do something by themself, form a gang, right? �Strength in numbers, right? �Problem is, that gang (unless it's fairly big), really can't do a whole lot to over power one of the established PCs , (a high risk, high potential yield situation), until the members get some chyen for decent weapons. �They could easily take down other newer PCs, or PCs who are not exactly new, but don't have great weapons/armor/stats. �The only problem with -that- is that now there is potentially a lower return and more people to split it with. �Not smart.

Would 5 PCs, say 3 with knives and 2 with a 6mm (a fairly affordable 'starter' weapon) be able to take out or even scare off (and I'm just using him as an example because he is an established PC and is around often) Moss? �I tend to doubt it. �And getting 5 PCs to band together (and be on often enough and in enough force such that the vet PC could not just easily pick them off one at a time) is difficult, not impossible i'm sure, but difficult to say the least, especially when you're new, have to keep your head down and everybody above you in the food chain knows that they can lean on you and you're going to talk, bleed, or both.

What would be great, is if some of the vet PCs took some of the newer charachters "under their wing" and brought them into their criminal businesses. �This way they learn instead of having to re-invent the wheel. �I'm sure this has happened in the past, and I hope that it happens now. �I just haven't really seen it.

Max has been offered all kinds of services, but never a .. "go do this, (rough up this guy/graffiti up this business/watch my back as I do this/deliver this for me and I'll pay you. �And oh by the way, if you ket killed, I'll cover the cost of your clone". �I would think that the vets who run their criminal businesses would be waiting for newer players to try and expand their empires, and indebt the new player to you as you do it!

Does red really need several PCs who loan money/sell firearms/contract out services? �I would think that 'eliminating the competition' would be a prime motivator, maybe not killing the PC, but musceling them out of the business.

The only way around this whole mess for a newer player, is to keep your head down, don't take anything but well calculated risks, take the opportunity when it arises, and build the character slowly - none of which, at least in my opinion, provide top notch RP scenarios for the new player or the vet. �This is Cyberpunk, the edge .. things move fast, anything that doesn't it road kill.

Feel free to correct me where I'm wrong and teach me why I'm wrong - and if you really feel the need to flame me, be my guest and fuck you in advance.

Just my $.02 for what it's worth.

The point about petty crime not being profitable however, isn't really true. You're talking about suplimenting your income, not getting rich, so, if there's a couple of you, mugging other players is a plausible way of making money.

Sure, go after the big guns in town too, but I don't think you're thinking about the petty stuff the right way.

People running for bruce, are always going to have a few hundred on them at least. You and your chum could more than likely liberate them of that cash, without even the need to kill them, afterall, if you had to chose, lose 500 chyen, or spend 5000 on a new clone, which are you going to do?

You'll make more money -if- you manage to take down one of the big guns in town.

You'll make less, but be far more likely to suceed if you try this stuff on a less established person.

That's the way it works. Higher the risk, higher the yeild.

Next time, instead of giving that guy directions to where he has to take his WW package, pull a knife on him, and take it there yourself!

Never underestimate the power multiple attackers. Ever. It's a lot easier than you think. Also, these older players, they were in the SAME BOAT YOU WERE IN. They managed to stay alive. If you are smart, and lucky, you might stay alive and take them down one day. It's the way it is.

Quote: from Tash on 3:11 pm on June 27, 2002[br]I read Murphy's post and though the logic of it seems great, what struck me was that you'd have to collaborate OOC before you created your characters in order to know those people in your group/gang had the skills spread out over the neccessary areas in order for each person to have a strength in at least one. And I wondered isn't that illegal?

Goon #1 [to Goon #2]: You need to work out more, you way too scrawny, G. and work on your aim, you couldn't hit a skyscraper if it fell on you.

See, you make friends ICly, not OOCly, and work with them. Surely within a month or so every newbie knows at least three or four other newbies?

Whether you can trust them or not is something else.

(Edited by Murphy at 3:16 pm on June 27, 2002)