ACE KOOL
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If it's more than 5 minutes, there's kinda a fuzzy line that happens there, but anyone who has half a brain will realize that this person isn't there and unconcious for IC reasons, and won't take advantage of it.
Usually people are kind enough to xhelp, and alert us to the problem instead of spamming the 'steal' command.
And if I hear one comment about a 'coded solution' I'm gonna rip that person's jaw off. It's not a coded problem… the steal code works just fine. It's an IC/OOC problem.
-Kevlar
Thanks guys for putting up with me and my crap ass computer. I get disconnected all the time...once again, thanks.
And what the hell would the coded solution be? You can't steal from this person until 5 minutes after d/c? :P
–Robert
Seriously, explain yourself. Cause I think your full of shit. I'd love to be proven wrong, and so would the players I'm sure.
I haven't put much thought into the theory behind it, but it's definitely possible, and from what I know, some of the backbone work for the system was already completed by Damon.
And Johnny, perhaps you would like to retract your statement, or edit it, and perhaps be civil with your comments, either be nice, or don't post.
My comment was concise, to the point, and above all else, -correct-.
–Robert
Oh, and if you havent put much thought into it, dont bring it up. If you cant back it up, zip the lip.
And where did you get the power to tell johnny to what he would like to do?
I wish I had that power.
I think that covers it.
+()()|_
(Edited by Tool at 11:04 pm on Aug. 7, 2003)
I was pointed to this thread from other places, not fully understanding the tid bit I was given I decided to read myself.
This is when I came across a rather nasty, and mis informed post by Johnny, or as Tool would like to refer to, God.
To Aikao It is a problem, and as Lotus points out, there should be the same protection to these people, as there are to newbs…but remember it's impossible to protect a player from any sort of boo boos after say chargen, or discon...
To Rob I have this to say, it can be done. I'm merely beginning to dabble in code, but it seems all to easy to code.
To Johnny I don't have time to go on and on. But play nice.
And to Tool. I don't know where to begin. Johnny does have the right to do what he damn well pleases. That doesn't make it right (just ask the Jews about Hitler). CS an inferior game? I dunno I haven't played it, but I think that it has it's ups and downs as does Sindome. I believe CS has a larger player, hell a non-moo has more activity on it than SD (Johnny knows exactly what I speak of). Rob never said anything mean about Johnny just that coded solution is possible. He disagreed. Questioning authority is a good thing, except here. You sound like a Johnny/Kevlar clone. May as well let em type for ya. Cause you obviously can't see the screen with your head that far up your ass? I don't have to be civil. You weren't civil, and Johnny rarely is. The only problem is that you probably won't get to see this post as it will be deleted from the thread by Johnny who does not want his Gospel word to be questioned. Johnny and Kevlar are not the Gospel on moo code. I've seen better people, and better Admin leave this feeble moo for better things. And I hope one day you can learn from your own ignorance. That is all.
Umm to all of my ole SD friends, assuming this is here to read. Aloha. I'm good, how are you ? That's nice. Keep in touch.
I don't see preventing theft on a disconnect temporarily as an acceptable solution. I see this as nerfing the thiefs ability, giving anyone an easy way out of getting pickpocketed. Trading one problem for another is not solving the problem.
I never said that it was impossible. I honestly haven't put a great deal of thought in to it, even now really, I just don't take well to people thinking they understand how easy it would be to do and like to have them explain themselves.
I sum it up to: I think your full of shit.
Don't take it like a personal attack, its not meant as such.
I'd like to know how logging can inact a coded solution to address this issue.
You said you'd like to know, and I a mere beginner could go in to the theory behind it, the verbs and syntax is a bit outa my league but if ya want *shrugs*.
Why do you protect a newb from bein killed? It's the same thing. I was permed cause of discon at a bad time, a 5-10 minute grace period, where an @home is added, i'm still awake and in limbo, reacting like i'm awake but idle, I may still be playin SD. It's just good form. I will explain myself and again this is just theory.
If a player discons, for any reason, the moo timestamps. You can code it so that player is still 'awake' as far as others in the moo know. All checks are run as if the player is awake. Or you can code a new verb that nixes all attempts to do anything to that player (much like the newb kill protect) for x seconds. Gimme enough time and a little guidance I could code it. If someone got booted they will come back in as soon as possible, or will do what they can to contact someone to tell the admin. I know it happened to me. Is it perfect? No. Is combat perfect? Is the matrix more thana year overdue, because of Babble-On? Nothing is perfect. A moo never will be, but it's a start.
oh and
Johnny, or as Tool would like to refer to, God.
I did not say he was a god. I merely said the -admins- word should be regarded as the gospel truth. If they say no, they mean no. I would never idolize a person to the point of worshiping them like a god. As far as I'm concerned there is only one God.
however as far as this Moo is concerned JMan is the supreme being who kinda makes the rules around here? no? i mean he is the archwizard. We dont have to bow down to him, though i'm sure he'd enjoy that, but it's kinda nice to respect him everynow and then isnt it?
As far as me being a keblar/johnny clone.. just a little background for everyone, I've been banned from the BgBB and have had several posts deleted, including one from this topic. So its up to you.
That should cover it.
+()()|_
:beatnik:
I've been voided for questioning them, I've had RP shot because of disagreeing with OOC things. The system is not perfect. A good admin base listens to their the players, to their desires and needs. The player base doesn't run the moo, but they -are- the moo. Ultimatly it is the admin, mostly the archwiz=Johnny who decide what is necessary and what isn't. If johnny does not feel this simple solution is fitting, than his player base should accept it. Done.
So, on top of however long it took for your connection to actually drop, you want to grant an extra 5 to 10 minutes of 'virtual connection'? Ofcourse, your friends wouldn't be able to help you cause you'd be fighting them off, since your connected.
I'd say you proved your point. I particularly care for the solution, but it'd work, which was what I was challenging.
And yes, your point about it not being perfect is good. Think of the whole moo that way. Be adults and respect each other OOCly and it'd be a total none issue anyway.
Damn forum notify is getting in the way of my RP! Take this to complaints damn you! Damn you all to heck! And your little dog too!
And the issue isn't about anyone being childish the issue is about whether or not a solution, be it perfect or not, could be coded. And you Johnny and the players have been proven wrong.
I do realize the whole moo is not perfect. But that doesn't mean it can't be fair.
Be adults and respect each other OOCly and it'd be a total none issue anyway.
I was referring to those twinks who steal when you get disconnected.
And we do protect you from being killed for 5 minutes after your disconnected. Killing is much more damaging than theft and has warranted the protection.
Oh, yes, and Lujan is NOT full of shit it :)
Jolly-Jacking Jim slumps to the groun unconscious.
[pick jim]
[steal shit from jim]
<ooc>I'm sorry you must wait 4 more minutes before you can do that.
[pick jim]
<ooc> I'm sorry you must wait 3 more minutes before you can do that.
.
.
.
and so on. That to me would promote twinkish behaviour more than get rid of it, plus spam the moo with pick commands and steal commands while they check to see if 5 minutes were up. but if the coded solution moved them into the $void after they did it.. i bet they'd quit for a while.
And you're not the only one who's discoed and awoken in the tunnel. Its happened to me with this current character. I started a fight, my isp dropped, i got reconnected in the tube, missed the entire death script. heh, theres a deleted post about that. Anyway, it happens to all of us. And trust me, I know how bad death on SD sucks, clone or perma. I've gone through 15 chars in under a year, and currently hold the record for most deaths.
+()()|_
:beatnik:
Quote: from Tool on 3:10 am on Aug. 8, 2003[br]Murphy, �You can turn forum notifications off…..
Yes, but the complaints forum is for bitchfests and penis-waving, methinks. And that's why it doesn't who up on notify.
Quote: from Tool on 3:10 am on Aug. 8, 2003[br]And you're not the only one who's discoed
That's where those emergency flares come in handy.
Aah-aah-aah-aah, Stayin' alive, stayin' alive..
(EXPLANATION: In Brit-land, they call bellbottoms 'flares', because the legs flare out. Get it? Yes, I ripped this joke off from one of Ras' earlier, pre-ban posts.)
As for stealing from people asleep. If you walk done your street, and you see some dude in a suit well dressed. And ytour living in the conditions a CP red inhabitant should be in. A rat hole with little food, and less booze? Would you steal his wallet? YES!!!! That's CP. Would take his money? OF COURSE! Would kill em? Not unless he raped your daughter. Stealing from someone who is asleep when you need money is IC! It's not twinkish. I've made this agrument hundreds of times if you read through ancient posts. If you could loot a sleeper like a body people w2ouldn't kill sleepers for 80 chyen. Cause as it is you would have to pick them 90 times. Right? It's probable, it's likely and it's easy…best of all it's ALL IC!
hmmm
Quote: from Tool on 3:19 am on Aug. 8, 2003[br]wonder if theres a way to get it to come up…hmmm
Viagra.
and with your connection problems i glad you do more than hog UE
I'm sorry, i dont fully understand the comment…
I do agree that you should be able to get all the chyen at once if there is a sleeper.
esp. if you rent a cube and find one in there... i love it when that happens.
Murphy, you took my post out of context. Shame on you.
I'm saying many people with good connections log on 3 times a day for ue, but you brave the world without the safety of a good connection. And for this you have my praise.
Quote: from Tool on 3:30 am on Aug. 8, 2003[br]I just said you'd lose the bet. �The grace period in my eyes would promote twinkishness as well. I mean they'd be like vultures waiting, not RPing, but watching a clock to see when 5 minutes was up. .
As opposed to being twinkish and stealing right away, without giving the player a chance to reconnect like a grace period would.
Quote: from Tool on 3:30 am on Aug. 8, 2003[br]Murphy, you took my post out of context. Shame on you.
I am shameless. Like ninja!
rabble rabble rabble rabble
+()()|_
*plays a loop of that old country song… "Cuase I'm Shamless" for murphy.*
oh and Dominik, thanks, didnt wanna be ungrateful. I think I log close to 6 hours a day on SD.. I wish there was some way to see the total.. oh well. I used to be a twink and people made me aware of it. I'm changing, its a process..
Quote: from Tool on 4:45 pm on Aug. 7, 2003[br] I mean hell given the oppurtunity to cheat, most of the playerbase would take it.
Maybe you would, but that belief of yours saddens me. I would never cheat, however easy, and I don't like to assume that most others would, and I don't have much reason to do so.
And regarding:
Quote: from Tool on 4:10 pm on Aug. 7, 2003[br] And trust me, I know how bad death on SD sucks, clone or perma. I've gone through 15 chars in under a year, and currently hold the record for most deaths.
I disagree. Clone deaths don't suck, at least not for me. I want to engage in interesting RP that may or may not involve the death of my character, and I'm not interested in having my character the most powerful in the game, but just to have him survive for a while to enable me to engage in more complex and exciting RP.
Maybe those deaths are due to:
Quote: from Tool on 4:45 pm on Aug. 7, 2003[br]I used to be a twink and people made me aware of it. I'm changing, its a process..
And regarding pick pocketing, that's a complex game balance discussion that's been debated a lot. I don't think that it should be instantaneous with sleeping people, as it removes too much potential for balancing consequences of crouching over a sleeping person and rummaging through their pockets in the middle of a street etc.
However, it's totally fake that killing someone makes getting their things easier. I mean, if you were to relieve a fainted person IRL of their things, you wouldn't snap there neck first, that's just a waste and pointless.
Regarding that, I recently thought that it would be a good idea to have it so the last item of clothing one took of a sleeper would automatically give all their remaining chyen as well. This makes sense as the money would be kept in the clothing probably and �it would not remove the potential for balancing consequences, as striping and taking clothes of a person would take some time, and be quite noticeable, as it should be.
Also, imagine you see a fainted person on the streets, in a CP world… it's quite possible that you would just rip of their jacket etc as discretely as possible with whatever is in there, and run off. Now I know that striping them naked would be a bit weird, so maybe it shouldn't be the last item of clothing, but it works in game balance more, and it's more realistic and better for the SD than having snapping their neck first help with pilfering a lot more, and being a more tempting option than it needs to be.
It also consequently removes the very weird situation that can occur where one has to carry on carefully pick pocketing a sleeping person despite them being stark naked.
And regarding your comment on trying to revive someone if they've fainted, that depends heavily on the character one is playing, the character that's fainted, and I think in CP it would be a lot more common for people to exploit the situation than be all altruistic and helpful.
However, exploiting OOC matters against common curtsey, and against the rules basically, is very different to IC exploitation, and so people who do pickpocket fainted people are not acting OOC probably, but are definitely being Twinks.
I would ignore the person having fainted probably for 5 mins at least, and then if the person re-established their connection, depending on the circumstances, I'd ask them if they want me to treat it IC.
If it's been for example about an hour since they got disconnected, and are still not back on then I'd treat it IC, but would still come up with some reason for having my character not exploit the situation if possible, in OOC respect.
And Johhny, I have experienced the server not recognising my disconnection for up to 30 minutes I believe, so it is a matter of providing some immunity in a coded solution if one is used, and not extended virtual connection time in my view.
Yikes, I�ve ranted a bit there.
I realise that some of that could belong in ideas etc, but it is all in response to what people have posted in this topic ;)
*sighs at the sensitive quote tags* Give me some html :)
(Edited by Protagonist at 9:09 pm on Aug. 7, 2003)
A coded solution is not an option not because it's not possible to code (sure, it's possible… trivial even for some implementations), but because it's not an acceptable solution to the problem.
We cannot and will not use code to prevent potentially twinkish behavior if it interfears with potentially non-twinkish behavior. The line must be drawn by the people, not by the code.
It remains in the hands and the honor of the players to not act in OOC ways. If you can't conduct yourself in an IC fashion and must be restrained by code, you don't belong here. This isn't because we 'can't' restrain you with code… it's because we won't in hopes of providing a better IC experience.
OOC problems will always arise, and we deal with these on an individual basis. Were not going to nerf the steal code because some OOC situtations could be abused. If there's only one valid IC situtation which could arise, and a thousand OOC abuses, we will still tend to allow it because we expect the adults who play this game to conduct themselves in an IC fashion, and with honor.
You can't code honor. The people have to bring it with them.
As it is we spend WAY TOO MUCH TIME writing code that prevents people from abusing stuff. Where there's a line to be drawn between use and abuse, IC and OOC, the people will make that call. Not the code.
-Kevlar
You don't like my pickpocketing musing then?
Oh, and…
As far as me being a keblar/johnny clone..
You do realise that that's going stick soon right? ;)
So… the fact that at least once a day some immature and disrespectful person makes fun of a typo made by a mildly dislexic person mean's it hasn't stuck yet?
Coulda fooled me!
-Keblar (Just for you, Protagonist. Enjoy.)
See Keblar I told you it would stick!!! hahahaha
oh, and kevvy, I dont mean it in a disrespectful way, it's like a term of endearment.. like that N work african americans use for each other.. but if a caucasion american uses it its racist... what the hells up with that? I dont use that word, and dont men to start a post aboutit, b/c its a touchy subject and might get any african americans playing the game on a un-needed rant. I was merely using that as an example.
When -I- say Keblar, I'm niether making fun of anyone nor disrespecting anyone.
*goes off to search for the post that was in*
+()()|_
:beatnik:
TOOL:
1) Vulgar Slang. A penis.
2) A person used to carry out the designs of another; a dupe.
3) . . . one that creates, manipulates. . .
FOOL:
1) One who is deficient in judgment, sense, or understanding.
2) One who acts unwisely on a given occasion
3) One who has been tricked or made to appear ridiculous; a dupe
4) A mentally deficient person; an idiot.
Definitions courtesy Dictionary dot com
Were the two words not so closely related in definition… (dupe) I might be offended.. .. .
Nah.. prolly not ;)
Anyone who takes these post personally just doesn't get it. Personally, I get great enjoyment out of the posts.
+()()|_
:beatnik:
:stoner:
If your not laughing at this your missing the point.
-Kevlar
wwait wait wait… ..... you sayinh.. nah, nevermind...
:beatnik:
man... i need back on my other box... i miss my beats...
+00|_ 7h3 F()()|_
