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Meta Knowledge

So I had a very good conversation with Dreamer this morning when I was trying to find out if clothes dried on their own.

The answer was, ask around ICly.

Preface: I am on board with this as an answer and realize that you've had a successful game and community running for a long time. So really my opinion on Meta knowledge isn't important in the matter other than perhaps trying to get some advice on how to better RP my character. Nor am I upset over this or expect policies to change. Want to state that up front since people have been so kind in explaining the why meta game info is not given or listed on a website.

Now moving on :)

So the conversation was about having to ask about things that people should know as common sense. My thought is that it makes my character appear to be both ignorant, unobservant and in some cases dumb. I get that people playing the game will realize that when I'm complaining about the doors not working it's OOC code to say help me, I can't figure out this in game concept. However, I also know that I get called a dumb immy and have to put up with a fair amount of expected abuse because of it. Asking about do clothes dry and other META 'how does this work' questions usually give me a very predictable response along with someone giving a usually helpful answer.

So regardless of what stat choices I've made, my lack of understanding on how a MOO works, and specifically how this moo works means that I will have to play my character as ignorant and unobservant to some of the basic facts of life. Like I know people get hungry in real life, I have seen food in game. I don't know if my character will get hungry or not as they haven't yet. I know in real life if I don't have three meals a day I am pretty famished. In game I'm managing on an item every other day. That could mean there is no hunger system, or it could mean that I've just managed it without worrying about it. However, I don't know that. I don't know if I need to save 100 Chyen for food or not, while if I was my character I'd know what I need to eat and could plan accordingly.

So the question would be, "how often do I need to eat?" As a player I want to ask it because what I've observed doesn't match what I expect in real life.

There's not a good way to ask that ICly and not appear kind of dumb :)

Compare that to someone who has played MOOs and specifically this MOO before. They are permed, or take the booth to start over. Because the player has Metagame knowledge they're automatically smarter, more observant, and will be reacted too far different in game than I will even if I have higher stats in things like Perception or Brains. If they try to limit using their in game knowledge, they're likely still not going to ask how a door works in game, they're not going to ask if clothes dry on their own in game. Because it's assumed that people know that stuff.

So... my question is: How do I RP a character to appear far less ignorant and dumb than the player is at the moment? Or should I just accept the trope and play to it?

My secondary question is, after reading the @nakeds thread. Do you play your characters, when you've boothed or were permed, as completely ignorant or not?

I don't see many people asking the kind of general questions that I do so I'm guessing that most people here have played before or played other MOOs enough not to be so confused.

Some people might not agree for whatever reason, but when it comes to things you mention like "How do I open this door" or "Do clothes dry" or "Do I need to eat" I do not see the harm in xhelping these questions or Xgaming them and getting a straight answer. It's not going to break the game.It's not going to set someone up with an unfair advantage.It's not really an IC matter because they are things that should be common knowledge to anyone who isn't a vegetable.

When you get on an IC medium however, and ask these things, I wouldn't expect them to be OOC signal flares for help (Though they typically are and people typically help) all of the time.You are now on the IC medium and people will act accordingly (Jeez, what a dumbass! Don't even know he gotta eat food! Probably don't know he has to wear his clothes too!)

I honestly think telling someone to "Find out ICly" if they have to eat or not is just being lazy or not sure themselves what is and what is not considered reasonable common knowledge. That is just my opinion though.

Dreamer did not just say "Find out IC". There was a discussion based around this and we tried to help you with this and how to find out knowledge that should be common knowledge, IC. Me and Dreamer attempted to show you different ways to go around the simple drying of clothes and trying to relate it with IRL scenarios. Please don't missinform people that he said "FOIC" because there was more to it.
People are harsh when you start...Questions like that are valid but you'll get divided answers on whether you should find out IC. Treat your character on here like a human. Even if there isn't a system for it, watching someone go two weeks without food would be pretty scary, no? You don't have to blow everything on keeping up appearances and making things make sense but it helps. sindome is much like life. Its a pain in the ass and then you die.

I'm pretty new still so that's just my 2c on that. But that's how I was told to play.

Good luck! <3

Agreed with Grizzly666. Unless you're playing someone with severe retardation, and even then, I'm sure you'd be able to tell if you were hungry or not. Only times in my life I haven't 'felt' hunger was due to being depressed or similar.
I don't think anyone will beat you up OOCly over asking the syntax for putting in a code on a door or likewise mundane questions.

For your second question, I think any system knowledge you've accrued as a player from playing the game is fair knowledge for your character, assuming their backstory/skills grant them that.

Where it gets tricky is when obviously new characters come in and already have a wide knowledge of Withmorian politics/VIPs day one in the dome. Obviously not everything in Withmore is self-contained (at least I don't think it is?) but once it gets past a certain point it gets immersion breaking.

Oh I agree :)

You and dreamer handled it very well. That's why I put in the preface. But the initial response was, ask ICly. That's why I said I get it. I wanted to articulate my thoughts on and also ask how I do it better. You guys gave some answers right away that were good.

I'm just looking for more. That's all.

Again, this is not a complaint. I really want to stress that as people have gone out of their way to help me and explain things.

The admins for sindome are lovely people overall and They are really helpful. Give the game some more time and you'll get the hang of everything.
You're coming off very brash SolBro, intended or not. Please be as mindful of that as you can. BlazingCoconut explained themselves nicely and took some time out to write their post. I have to agree with Grizzly666 and OP too, you guys make good points. Maybe we can be more gentle on new players who obviously need help IC. They come here to have fun, get the hard welcome and the whole five yards and need to put up with our witty comments when it's obvious the player needs help because FOIC and there character isn't actually dumb.
I agree on that as well. They have been nothing but helpful and patient with me.

I still am looking for help on how to play a character who is not as dumb as the player is at this point :)

Like the hunger bit, how should I ask that? I know the answer is eat regularly. But again, if I'm saving my Chen to get tools to move ahead and already having issues with crate running, then as a character I'd tighten my belt. Not eat, don't shower, whatever. How do I get that basic knowledge about Meta systems without making my character sound really stupid?

I think what you really need to do is start reading help files. What are help files? They are a few paragraph long texts for you to read related to subjects in the game that you might wonder about (example help food). How do you use them? You simply type 'help x' x being the topic you want to find about. If the word you use is linked to a help file then it will provide you access to it, if it doesn't it will suggest to you other help files with associated words. There is always the option that there is no help file about what you are asking, but a lot of stuff is covered in there. We also have video tutorials, xgame, xhelp a wiki and forums full of information at your disposal. Just search for what you want to know and start reading, this is a text game after all.

Second, you need to accept that you are a new player and as with all things that are new you are going to be ignorant about it and you are going to 'suck' at it and there is going to be an adjustment period while you learn. So come to peace with this and play the game, that's the best way to learn.

This game is big, really big and things are changing all the time so even veteran players don't know everything and have to adapt and learn all the new stuff from scratch just like a noob. Just trust that you are not alone, and if you try to find out in game you are most likely going to run into other people that can help you and also need to learn things.

I think there are a few ways to answer these kinds of questions and I encourage you to explore them all as you will find yourself having to use them all eventually. And don't worry about seeming stupid. Worse case is that you can hop on a random SIC alias, ask your stupid question, then hop to another. It is unlikely that anyone will link that question to you.

0. Help files, BgBB and Wiki

There are a lot of them but they are awesome. Even if you don't have the time or patience to read them all I suggest you look at 'help index' as well as each of the sub indexes. Just scan the titles of the help files a few times. Then, when you start to wonder about food you might recall, "Hey, I say there was a food help file. I'll check that out ('help food').

Even if you don't want to skim over the help file titles just try out a few keywords. 'help food', 'help eat', 'help hunger', 'help drink'. There is a pretty good chance you'll find something that will answer your question.

You can also search the website as it will direct you to BgBB posts, wiki pages and help files on the site.

1. Experiment and observe

This means you 'examine' and 'look' at everything. You monitor your character's status. You gauge the results your actions have on you and those around you. You can learn a LOT like this.

2. Ask ICly.

It's best to view Withmore as a strange new land. Yes, the whole world is Cyberpunk but Withmore is a largely isolated place and tech there is often different than the outside world. So it's fine to ask. And I actually do tend to ask a lot of basic questions when I start a new character. ICly. On SIC or directly to people my character meets. Though it is more on the 'get to know Withmore side' and less on every day stuff.

3. Ask Game-Help or xhelp (OOCly)

In general I feel that if there is a help file, BgBB post, or wiki entry with the answer to the question than it is fair to ask and answer that question. In fact, I personally go out of my way to not only answer the question but point them to the source material.

It is my hope that by doing so people will realize that 90% of these questions are already answered as far as they can be and accessible to all. And help them become familiar with the tools one can use to get answers.

I don't think this is against the rules, what I'm about to say. So, BlazingCoconut, when you're off-screen your character is sleeping or doing things. Some people take breaks or get distracted with real life and then return IC and tell others they were in business in outer central while MIA, when they were really in a 'coma' in their apartment. Likewise, your character can eat off screen but there are reasons for eating actual coded foid. You won't die by not eating it though. If your character is poor they probably don't have the luxury of eating off-screen and coded food is the only food tgey eat that passes as nutritious. So roleplay it how you like but consider your resources at disposal etc. Sometimes your character SHOULD be eating coded food because they need it to prevent themselves from starving.
Yep, sorry for the long XGAME conversation there, but very much appreciated.

I think I'm just going to tweak my character to be a little spacey to fit the reality of where I am in game knowledge. It would then make more sense and probably give me some good RP encounters as well.

Sometimes stuff exists on the forum that you need to know already. Try the search function to find out if the food conversation's been had before (it has, I remember looking up the same thing once).
I agree with PurpleParade. Part of the reason we don't want to answer a question like 'do you need to eat' is because, even without a coded system (which does exist) to support something like eating we still want you to RP it! Steal a pickle from the bar at the drome. Panhandle for 100c for some food. Not because the game forces you to do it but because it makes for fun/immersive rp.

Most things in the game that don't exist as coded systems can and should still be rped.

We push people to discover this stuff instead of just being answered on xgame as a policy, so it trains folks off the bat to seek these answers themselves and also so folks don't just do the minimum required to keep their character alive from a code perspective.

It's not a perfect system by any means, and it does cause hesdaches or moments of confusion like what you experienced but overall, it's what we have found works the best and leaves as little grey area for confusion about what it's ok or not okay to discuss or divulge as possible.

Hope this helps.


It does and it all helps. Honestly, I'd be totally fine with someone saying, no there's no starvation system, but... you need to RP eating.

That's a convention that's kind of like not using people's names. I know several of the people that mugged me, but I won't RP telling who they are to anyone other than a slim guy. Why? Meta is important and I get that. So I'm all for saying it's a convention and try to RP as immersively as possible.

OMG. I just found the video page. Maybe a small suggestion, Slither, you could totally have said. Watch Tutorial 19 and that would have helped tons! Great tutorials overall, but that one pretty clearly answered most of what I was asking about or feeling.