TERRA, and WJF in the Dome
Cops and Robbers with no Cops

I wanted to start a discussion mainly about TERRA and WJF. Or I suppose their place in Withmore OOCly and ICly. If this seems scattered as a topic, I had infact thought of it on a whim and made this post.

Most of this is my outside looking in opinion, but it feels like the vast majority of law enforcement is absent? However there's debate inside me whether this is for the theme or an actual issue. And how it may echo sentinements of corporate play topside being invisible to most.

But as corporate play seems to get a few threads talking about how it exists and is mostly sequestered, is TERRA and WJF play similar and just not spoken of?

Similar to those corporate threads, is this play supposed to be like this? What do people think of current LE interactions and RP? What might be best practice to approach this sector of RP?

I have always been of the opinion that criminals and judges are too far removed from each other to make them a focal point of the theme though it varies and depends on the player base (sometimes we have more criminals, sometimes less).

In my experience as someone who has been on both sides:

1. Judges can’t go to the Mix.
2. All crime happens in the Mix (due to mechanical and themely disadvantages to doing crime topside).
3. Judges don’t do anything about all the crime unless it happens topside, which is the minority of crimes committed.

Solution? Remove TERRA, lower bar of entry for WJF, and let’s see Judges in Red. More venues for political play, corruption, and law enforcement interactions.

That's how it is, yes. The WJF are primarily a topside/corporate faction, and the majority of your time will be spent topside. You can dip your fingers into the Mix pie, it's just not a direct effect and not as common.

villa's post definitely makes me think. I do think the WJF as it stands with its UE requirements and equipment would lead to a major curbstomp on a lot of lowbie/midbie crime if that was a regular thing, so lowering requirements and reducing the power of their equipment - or making TERRA and CorpSec the main law enforcement that interfaces with the Mix while keeping the WJF as an ambient 'topside is far more safe' NPC faction would work better to reduce the divide there IMO.

There'll be two to three PC Street Judges at most in most situations. The WJF as a whole has the capability to have 12-18 PC employees (depending) and at times has had 8-12 active PCs all at once in the last five years.

Minimum experience for getting into the WJF in a Law-enforcing role is only four months. If you're a rollover that's seven months of UE potentially, but there is a good chance of low UE characters in the WJF and easy to target.

The WJF doesn't really deal with most MIx crimes because like Grey0 wrote, it's important for characters to have the ability and space to do crimes and illegal activity. If you put the WJF, weaker or not, in the Mix, you have to rewrite the Code and you have to separate the mentality of ganging up on the WJF. It'd be like if corporate security could respond to all crimes on Gold/Green streets no matter what along with the WJF. Which does occasionally happen when it shouldn't and generally steps are taken so CorpSec learns not to do that.

I think TERRA could stand to use some type of expansion of variety of roles and gameplay. I liked the forensic option route that was being allowed but seems to have been dropped/pushed to the wayside. I think TERRA as it is takes the right kind of player and fortitude and could do with continuing change by Mix players to see them not as mini WJF, but just an adjacent independent contractor that's a really great opportunity to slip some corrupted people/people in your pocket into.

@Grey0

Sure, but that doesn't change that with the way TERRA is right now, you become the target of a lot of factions/PCs that are usually higher in UE than you, with more resources, and in the Mix. Whether or not you're a conflict-oriented player doesn't really matter here because it is just going to overall be a harder experience for your character compared to if you chose to be part of a gang in the Mix. Both are great for conflict-driven players, one is significantly harder.

I do agree that TERRA could use a theme change and that them being seen as mini-Judges and snitches to be destroyed on sight/attacked by pro-Mix PCs who want to fuck with the system doesn't really work that well for players, as it is a really isolating experience. There have been instances of TERRA being used really well, and corruption is just one angle of that, but it's not the kind of vision that gets accepted by the majority of the playerbase.

I agree it's hard Cowbell. Not denying that a PC in TERRA, as things stand, will likely be killed frequently and face overwhelming odds. It is a challenging path. I just know that some players, myself included more often than not, have a hard time finding conflict and action that feels more meaningful that gangers taking turns essentially sparring on the streets. If finding action is harder for you than dealing with the deaths and losses TERRA could be a boon, not a hardship.

I do think that positions like TERRA and some specific mix security roles, as they stand, basically encourage a hide and avoid play style. I think that some PCs outside of these orgs want something themely to kick about and craft a narrative to support it. And some PCs want helping hands in the mix and craft a narrative to support it. I think that a PC in TERRA will need to be proactive about crafting their own narrative to combat one or both of these things and that's not easy.

Regarding TERRA and the WJF, I would say that, though I think a PC can do a lot to shape their experience, I am not a huge fan as to how things stand now. And not just TERRA/WJF. I feel the same about gangs/others/syndicates. About security roles. About mix and topside.

I think too much effort is made to keep all the stations the same and making players hop from group to group based on their UE or 'time in dome' (I hate this phrase). I think this creates tracks that, while one can ignore, is very hard to avoid and catches a vast majority of the player base.

I'd rather see more shift in the landscape. Let those groups change in position and role Maybe Gang A displaces Syndicate B. Let some groups die so there is room for new ones to more easily emerge. Let players do more of the heavy lifting in a way by allowing them to create these fun stories of change instead of forcing them back onto the same old tracks for the sake of 'theme' when this game's theme can exist in so many different forms.

TERRA, in my opinion, doesn't have to be the subservient farm team fr the WJF and corps. As it is it makes a terrible farm team as it tends to push players into a build that doesn't really fit the Judge template very well. I would love for most every group in the game to have room for growth all the way to max UE from immy. Even if that means TERRA has the heavier PC hitters than the WJF sometimes.

My TERRA play was with a fairly fresh PC. A couple months in. His TERRA career lasted a good while. They actively refused WJF intervention and contact. They also never hid their role as TERRA and told anyone who asked. So I do think there are at least a few ways to do TERRA with some measure of success. Still, death and losses will happen.

It is good to hear the change with guns and TERRA. Very positive for those wanting that path!

I agree! I had a great group of PCs playing the opposition at the time. And the rejection of WJF was a balancing act. The idea was to push a pro-mix narrative for TERRA at that time. Finding creative ways to stonewall the WJF while 'fighting for the mix' and placing the mix first.

I believe that most of the organizations in the game are not so monolithic. It's easy to paint the members of them with broad strokes. I truly believe that some of the agents in TERRA are WJF servants, some are corrupt mofos and some do truly want to help the mix. I just tried to bring one of those agents who truly wanted to do right by the mix to the forefront.

I will also note that, during my time, it felt like a dozen other agents came and went. I think that is testament to what Mindhunter and Cowbell are saying. It is a hard path in a lot of ways.

It's a lil point adjacent. But I wanna push back on something said above, just so it's not normalized.

All crimes doesn't happen in the mix. Crime happens topside, a LOT. In fact, I'de argue it's probably closer to half and half then you think. And I'm not talking about boring stuff like embezzling 2k more off a requisitions form. Murder, Heists (yes heists, I have personally put together one of these, and it wasn't even that long ago. Good crime is often unseen), Corporate Espionage, these all happen topside, and some of this can ONLY happen topside.

on topic: Terra could use a bit more support, even if it's more money to help them turn informants. Most of the time, if you a nobody, joining terra is pllaying on hard mode. But I have personally seen people with good reputations join Terra, and be mostly fine. They would shot up to events, and even publically have friends, and shit. So it largely depends on circumstances.

I would recommend trying terra on a character decent with combat, and with decent connections, you might have a bit more fun then just rerolling and bringing your 1.5 years of free to the force. REPUTATION MATTERS.

I also think Judges need to do a bit more Mixops. They happen, rarely. And when they do, it's always big, it always ripples through the whole game, and it's always fun for all.
Don't overdo it, there needs to be real reasons for it. But any day with a WJF APC in the mix, is sure to be one talked about for months.

I really enjoyed the TERRA experience. It's true that you play without company funding and support 99% of the time, but that's fairly easy to overcome if you're resourceful and can identify ways to use your position for financial gain/social maneuvering. I also think a TERRA agent is able to be as good or bad a person as they want to be. The way you play in the role can also determine the way you're received in the mix. In my own time at TERRA, I saw multiple coworkers come and go, each with different playstyles and moral compasses. There were a variety of allegiances across city factions.

I think the real goal for any faction, WJF, TERRA, gangs, corpsec etc. is influence through power. While physical force is common, there are a lot of ways to exert power and build influence.

It's really interesting because, while yes, most topside entities arent terribly visible in the mix, they're all focused on building and maintaining relationships with mixers and mix factions in order to exert control through intermediaries. The mix is a chessboard to be controlled for their faction's goals. It's the same with gangs.

TERRA is in a really unique position in that regard. The notion that "you're on your own" with TERRA means you have the option to support anyone you want, or everyone if you feel like it. Gangs are probably the most obvious public facing representation of mix power and influence in Red. TERRA can be that too if you play it that way.

In any case, I think the distance between criminal and Judge or criminal and corpsec is smaller than people think. Topside entities stay out of the mix, usually, but their power, money, and influence arent. It is intermediaries exerting it in their place, so that influence is often invisible.

(Edited by RatchetEffect at 5:03 am on 11/28/2025)