Withmore Society

One is the Timeline is being expanded greatly, giving more historical refferance points to the game. I am taking the liberty of sampling from some player histories where appropriate. This should give you all something greater to work with for histories, and for getting a feeling for the Sindome timeline and reality.

Another is expanding the help section in terms of thematics and realities of the economy and social/political/world structure in 2088.

But, to start it all off, I am posting a comment here on based from a history denial I recently wrote. (Thanks Haon!)

–--- On Society Lecture 101.01: Economic Stigmas ----

There is a massive social stigma to living on RED. Red isn't -REALLY- meant to be living space, it's like the underbelly of the dome proper, and it is where all the dirt poor and criminally insane live. To someone from topside (gold, green, blue) to have to move to Red is akin to suicide. Not social suicide, but literal. To the people on Gold, someone falling to red, a 'fallen angel' is someone who is to be pitied at best, ignored on average, and hated by many for failing economically.

The further up in levels you go, the greater the typical social stigma towards a lower level. Someone who lives on Gold is at -BEST- a wage slave. A lower minion on the work force who is only able to afford living in coffins or cube-motels. This is less than desirable for the corporate lifestyle. So living on GOLD, which is primarily the business sector, a sort of 'Downtown Core' if you will. It isn't literally that way, because the dome is aranged in a vertical structure, but that is the easiest way for you to think in terms of equating the dome to real-world situations.

Someone living on GREEN is your solid corporate worker. (Or your really slick RED Criminal trying to move up a few levels!) Green is where the majority of the corporate wage slaves live. They aren't often in high management, though some are, especially if they are living in penthouses or fancy condo complexes. People on GREEN typically look at RED as scum and criminals, and not to be trusted.

Now -WAY- up on BLUE, things are very different. BLUE is made up of a series of high end Arcology complexes. This is the dream land, the home of the really wealthy elite. Basically, if you are from Blue and living on Blue, you only come down from Blue to go to your share-holders meeting or your 'save the mutated whales' charity dinner. Citizens on BLUE tend to be very classist, and don't often realize people live on RED. They don't concider anyone with less than a million chyen a month bank roll human.

Hope that helps you understand the gist of the classist society that is Withmore City a bit better.

–-- Withmore Society 101.02 - Education System ----

Schooling in Withmore City is done in two ways:
1) Corporate Training/Corporate funded Education
2) Expensive Private Schools.

There are no public schools or highschools in Withmore City.

This is a common mistake a lot of people make. University is elite of the elite, and extreamly expensive. It's the home of the rich.

–--

-Kevlar

However, there doesn't seem to be much admin support.  For instance, a common thief, without even having much skill, can make more in one day than most corporate players can in a week's time, depending on who their targets are.

I think corpies should be able to get much more money than they are now.  I mean..  perhaps not all of them.  For instance those that still have ties to RED would be less respected, as you said.  But those who have cut off all ties (or those who never had any, if that's even possible with today's chargen), should be given more corporate opportunities.  And enough with the SHI-style work up there already!  No wonder all the corpies are poor.  That's boring as hell and completely detracts from RP.

Anywho..  Just my two cents, neh?

It's not, so please don't take it as such.

Now, here's a topic I'd like to see added to the Town Hall meeting. The cyberpunk theme, itself.

What Iga is talking about, is a -core concept- of cyberpunk, the genre this game is based upon.

It's the struggle between the haves and the have nots, and the hatred between the two.

Cyberpunk is .. "An unholy alliance of the technical world and the world of organized dissent"
-Bruce Sterling - Introduction to Mirrorshades.

The have nots of red are the dissenters, rebelling against the corpie haves.

Are there things that can be done to widen that gap and give the players more of a reason to organize thier dissent from a staff perspective, (admin support) yes.

Are there things that can be done to widen that gap from a player perspective so that they really are opressing the scum of red, (player creativity, initiative, drive, determination and will) absolutely. �And there are players that play the part of a corpie -beautifully-. �Kudo's to them and keep it up.

They -won't- go down to red.

They -only- carry chyen when they must.

They have an -I own the MotherFuckin World so you better do what I tell you or else- attitude and they -play- the game that way.

They do what they can, within the confines of the game, to be a corpie, and they do it well.

Do they see a lot of RP? �Well, from what I've seen, yes. �Is it as much as someone who walks around on red, no, but SIC and phone are good mediums as well, I know one player in particular who gets their rocks off -every single time- they get someone to come up to Green or Gold because they are doing the corpie thing, calling the shots and manipulating the fuck out of the rest of the world they can interact with.

And that's the CP way.

It -can- be done. �Is it easy? �No.

Yes, you have to take the lev (or buy a vehicle) to get to where most characters are. �But should you really be dealing with that scum in person? �And on red of all places? �Gads, you should be revolted!

Is life a bit lonely as a corpie the way things are now? �Yes, of course it is. �And anyone who has a reasonably high position (middle management or above) will tell you that often, that's life in the real world. �

Does it promote a ton of RP? �At the moment, no. �But as more corpies play the game (just like as more of anything plays, oppertunities open up, groups and alliances get together and breakup) and all the while, these corpies should be doing thier best to make the life of the red scum, hell.

If you're a corpie and living on red, that's not realistic and is actually detracting from game balance. �You make the chyen, shell out for the better pad!

As for characters being brought up to hate judges, the characters who live on red should be. �Judges symbolize 'the man', opressive tyranny (real or perceived) that any self-respecting 'punk should be rebelling against. �So of course people on Red are going to hate them. �And TERRA as well. �People on red will hate most corps in general, and a few, specifically.

Everyone on red has a cause, everyone on red is pissed off about something, everyone on red wants to do something about it.

You're the shooter or shootee, the criminal or the victim, cannon fodder or a survivor, there is no in between. �Even on red, it's the haves and the have nots. �And you're willing to stake your life (not such a big deal in the age of cloning) and your reputation (everything) on doing -something- to strike a blow at -the man-, whoever that happens to be, for you.

If you're a corpie, you should -love- the judges and be trying to -use- them to do your manipulative bidding. �They're a servant of the city you live and work in that is controlled by a corporate council. �They just have a bit more power than your typical on the beat cop because the corporate council wants to keep the scum in check and make an environment that is good for business and making money!

As for judges hasseling people who try to move up, If you're a corpie you shouldn't be doing anything so overtly obvious and illegal as to attract the attention of a judge. �You're supposed to be smarter than that. �You're the ones with the education, unlike the scum on red, right?

If you're a piece of red scum trying to move up, well then you deserve all the hassle you get. �The man -is- trying to keep you down. �What do you expect?

Sorry if this is rambling, I'm trying to touch on quite a few points here and do it quickly.

I'll be happy to expand on anything if needed/requested.

(Edited by Jinkorei at 8:45 pm on Oct. 29, 2003)

I wouldn't look down on you for it.

As long as everyone keeps RPing on RED, because 'thats where you can find RP', then you're never going to find RP elsewhere. In the early days, this was fine, we weren't trying to promote growth on the corpie side cause it was much less developed then it is today. Everyday, we try to put more stuff in GOLD for you guys to RP around/against. When coding and building, we're providing the places and devices for you to RP. You guys used to find RP doing Bruce runs for instance. It's realitively simple code that lets you earn some dough and perhaps, encounter someone with good or bad intentions towards you and your package.

I wholely try to support corpie endeavours whenever I become aware of them. The Cordoba Wellness Home comes to mind. I enabled a player there to design custom cosmetic mods with the promise that similar IC cyberware (yes, cosmetic mods are cyberware) would be made available in time. Another thing that comes to mind is the vehicles in general. From their release, they were designed for corpies.

Hell, we currently have several salary positions available for people to fill. And the salaries of most corpies were doubled about 3 months ago.

The corpies have been my main focus since at least Feb 03. This continues to this day.

It is what you make of it.

Yes, if you make enemies of everyone except a few people, and stay in your room all the time, and never make inroads into your own problems which are preventing you from socializing, then it is mind-numbingly boring.

Sometimes you have to do something drastic to escape the box you've allowed yourself to be put into.

Sometimes it takes more than just playing your character: Sometimes it takes changing who your character is.

It happens all the time: People make life changing decisions, and are effectively a different person as a result. Maybe they stop doing something which is preventing them from achieving their goal. Maybe they try a different approach. Maybe they pack their bags and leave everything behind and start somewhere new. Maybe they just decide from now on they'll do things differently. Whatever the case, life in Sindome is what you make of it.  If you make it into 'I'll be the baddest Judge this city has ever seen', you pay the concequence of being publically ostersized.

If you don't like it, make something else of it. Don't beat your self to death trying to make the same thing work over and over and over, only to be ultimately disapointed and 'stop making effort' because you can't seem to solve the problem.

And for god's sake don't bitch when we try and make it interesting by throwing obstacles in your way, regardless of what they are: Code, mementoed NPC's, whatever.  We do these things because we care about making the game interesting, and helping to find you obstacles to overcome, not to frustrate you further.

Everyone on red has a cause, everyone on red is pissed off about something, everyone on red wants to do something about it.

Not true. Some people are genuinely apathetic.

If you're a corpie, you should -love- the judges and be trying to -use- them to do your manipulative bidding.

That's not true either. It's just a sterotype, and a bad one at that. A crooked corpie wouldn't -love- law-enforcement. He may tollerate them, or buy them, or manipulate them, or be indifferent to them, or genuinelly hate them if he dosn't control them. They may be an obstacle to overcome… especially for a corpie.

I've had to deal with first flak from admin for knowing what I'm doing. I've had to watch most of the people who made this game worthwhile - both players and admin - leave. I've had code thrown in front of me, I've had buckets of spawning memento'ed NPCs tossed up my ass, and I've even had an admin IM me to tell me that my RP had no place in SD. All the while giving every effort to make my character a unique individual and affect the IC world, all the while having to tear myself out of character despite my own reluctance to do so to avoid killing people I thought contributed to the IC world even though I've had more than reasonable IC reason to perm them.

It's a lot easier to recruit people to your point of view when you only give them the partial truth, ignore the positive aspects, the positive interactions, the positive contributions, use quotes out of context, and only highlight the negative experiences. But that's your perogative to not reconize that you once did enjoy playing, and there's many good things about the game, and like many people before, and undoubetedly after you, you have fallen into a rut from which you no longer care to put forth the effort to escape.

The point of this discussion is to suggest and discuss ideas for how to improve Sindome, and these situtations which you have outlined… not vent your frustrations in a sarcastic tone; There's an entire forum for that kinda stuff.

-Kevlar

(Edited by Kevlar at 4:29 pm on Oct. 30, 2003)

Quote: from Kevlar on 7:26 pm on Oct. 30, 2003[br]
Yes, if you make enemies of everyone except a few people, and stay in your room all the time, and never make inroads into your own problems which are preventing you from socializing, then it is mind-numbingly boring.

Ho-ho. Funny. Fact of the matter is, I haven't made enemies of everyone. Indeed, I haven't interacted with half the people in the game in any way whatsoever. Indeed, there was a time when the vast majority of players (who weren't murderers - and even one who was) were Murphy's allies.

I've been actively blocked from interacting with the vast majority of players. Indeed, the only people I've ever actively made enemies of are the ones diametrically opposed to my character - and even then, some I've tried to turn to allies.

Indeed, I used to be bitched by admin at for making friends. The only players my character has been killed by were indeed oldbies he'd made enemies of (including once a tag-team of 2-3 year old characters!).

Quote: from Kevlar on 7:26 pm on Oct. 30, 2003[br]Sometimes you have to do something drastic to escape the box you've allowed yourself to be put into.

Nevermind the fact that I've been stuffed into this box for RPing my character properly, eh?

Quote: from Kevlar on 7:26 pm on Oct. 30, 2003[br]�If you make it into 'I'll be the baddest Judge this city has ever seen', you pay the concequence of being publically ostersized.

Primo, as it stands, my character is effectively the WJF all on his own. Ryan works a lot, and there will never be newbie Judges as the game stands. This is extremely counter-productive to the corpie side, as people get routinely robbed on Gold and Green, and would probably on Blue too if there was anyone there. Which is not very IC. And don't tell me the GMs will take care of it, they don't have time to monitor everything that goes on. Stealing runs on Gold would just turn into a CS job-run like system, whereas players will wake up extra early, do a quick series of robberies when no one is around, and then go about their lives. Furthermore, we all saw what happened to Gerik after he quit WJF, didn't we? He got @hated by all Red NPCs and was routinely swarmed, only without the benefit of a steady paycheque or proper gear. What's more, I'm not going to completely change my character because the vast majority of criminal players used to be stupid fucks. That's why I'm in this box, because I'd catch stupid fuck criminals on a far too regular basis. Why? Because they were stupid fucks.

Quote: from Kevlar on 7:26 pm on Oct. 30, 2003[br]And for god's sake don't bitch when we try and make it interesting by throwing obstacles in your way, regardless of what they are: Code, mementoed NPC's, whatever. �We do these things because we care about making the game interesting, and helping to find you obstacles to overcome, not to frustrate you further.

I don't consider having 5-15 memento'ed NPCs spawn and kill me to be very interesting. In fact, I'd find being @moved to WA roof and being shoved off far more interesting. And I'm not frustrated, I'm apathetically angry.

Quote: from Kevlar on 7:26 pm on Oct. 30, 2003[br]It's a lot easier to recruit people to your point of view when you only give them the partial truth, ignore the positive aspects, the positive interactions, the positive contributions, use quotes out of context, and only highlight the negative experiences.

The almost exclusively negative experiences that I've had over the past year are what's bothering me. And what bothered the majority of oldbies right off the MOO. Indeed, isn't it the total knackering of CS that led to the creation of SD? It's time someone said something and I'm through shutting up and putting up. If this bothers you, ban me from the forum. Ban me from the game. Knock yourselves out.

Quote: from Kevlar on 7:26 pm on Oct. 30, 2003[br]But that's your perogative to not reconize that you once did enjoy playing, and there's many good things about the game, and like many people before, and undoubetedly after you, you have fallen into a rut from which you no longer care to put forth the effort to escape.

I do recognise that I once did enjoy playing. Unfortunately, that was a long enough time ago that I don't really remember what the fuck it was like. What I do remember, however, is that it used to be so someone needed only leave their cube/apartment and RP would be thrust upon them. And I don't mean by admin. In my first couple of weeks on SD I'd seen people fighting, Judges running around after people, people running around after Judges, cannibals, sneaky cyborg ninjas who needed to raise their stealth a bit more, people hunting for tokens, giggling imps, you name it.

I'm not bitching because I don't want to make an effort. I'm bitching because someone has to say something, because what pisses me off is that I don't see SD as worth making an effort for anymore.

You seem to have missed my point entirely.

-Kevlar

P.S. Can someone please tell me why everyone says something like 'Don't like it? So ban me.' whenever they're vocal about something? To date, not a single person has ever been banned for being vocal. It takes more than expressing your opinion to get banned. We reserve the right to censor, but we don't ban because we had to censor you. We only ban when you won't respect the censor, and seek to subvert it.  And anyone who tells you differently is either confused or lying, or a combonation of the two, and probablly has an agenda.

(Edited by Kevlar at 6:28 pm on Oct. 30, 2003)

My point was, "We want you to do whatever it takes (within the rules and boundries of the game) to make the game enjoyable again."

Or perhaps, "We want you to help us make the game more enjoyable for you again."

Bitching dosn't accomplish that. Or perhaps it does, if you enjoy bitching.

-Kevlar

(Edited by Kevlar at 7:38 pm on Oct. 30, 2003)

BTW, have a look at one of Iga's latest creations.