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Corporate Incomes Vs. Red Sector Incomes

Earlier today, it came up on the game that the Mix is a veritable gold mine for raking in chyen through a variety of opportunities that can easily be tens of thousands of chyen. Without delving into all those IC means that I've been aware of/heard about, I wanted to know if any other players noticed some alarming trends lately with corporate characters. I can glance over and see that at a good chunk of the corporate side of the game are often resorting to taking up side gigs in tailoring, tattooing and other forms of marketable services just to supplement their main kind of job.

To me, that's pretty fucking wild and sometimes makes me wonder, "Well, how are they even doing the best at their jobs and representing the company that's hired them if all they're doing is advertising their trade services in their SIC tags 90% of the time?"

It's, quite frankly, disheartening that even I (someone who's had a corporate character for the majority of play times) have considered going back to tailoring/selling art to supplement my character's income to rake in chyen to get to a goal faster so I can push it back into the game's economy and to create opportunities for the players coming up under me.

That's disturbing and ruins my immersion. Am I wrong in that perspective? I understand 100% that it can be a skewed vision, as one player's observations can be radically different to the next on the spectrum. At the very least though, I thought it'd be interesting to bring up.

I feel like this falls under FOIC. There are certainly no coded Mixer jobs that pay anything like what a teevee personality makes, or a security chief for that matter.

If you think Mixer characters have an advantage making money, they certainly can, if they're enterprising, but the Mix is also full of people who are completely impoverished and scraping by, both from a lore perspective and in terms of the real PCs playing. There are characters who've learned to thrive, who also tend to drive the Mix economy by buying gear, chrome, spending flash, developing networks of people who work for them, etc.

Industrious characters make more flash, whether corporate or topside. They put in more work on their side projects and benefit from it. All those side-hustling tailors are supplying pretty clothes for those who are higher up the chain and can afford them.

I think that for some jobs, like media star jobs for example, players end up spending their time and art on their actual job that they're getting paid for, if that makes sense. Other people treat their real job as an afterthought and devote their energy towards side business.

I think that's just the game, really. Nothing is stopping you from doing the same, and I'm not sure it's unthemely. Reimbursements are a thing, too, that Mixers have no access to; you can potentially use them not only to benefit yourself but for corporate projects that involve other players.

If people working on side-biz is ruining your immersion, maybe the best move is to respond ICly, by undermining them for their apparent apathy towards their real jobs.

I think a more succinct version of my answer would be to say that I don't think "resorting to taking up side gigs" is what those corpies are doing. I think they're actively hustling to make as much flash as they can, like most players in the game.

You could probably triple standard corporate wages as a baseline. Corporate characters are actually often *poorer* than equivalent Mix characters due to the loss of side hustle.

For example, you are entitled to 10k of 'automated' income a week as any type of character.

For mixers, you can fill this by running stuff for scavengers and gangers relatively easy. There's a big side economy for this sort of thing. Or, you can run crates. Slower, but like 4 days of crates will get you that shiny 10k.

For corporates, if you're seen running crates, you lose rep. It looks terrible for a corpie to be running crates. And that's about it! There's your weekly automated income source. There's no markets to ply, no gangers to sell shit to, squat. Corporate chars do get the advantage of requisitions and the like, but it really isn't comparable to liquid chyen in terms of sheer 'doing' factor.

So a mixer char with his paltry wage of 10k+ 3k is in effect, earning the same amount as a junior level corporate position if he's smart about it.

Topside was really not very well designed at all from a gameplay perspective.

I'd also like to add that smart manuevering of the scav/ganger system can net you anywhere up to 25k instead of 10k over the weekly limit, so certain Mixer chars are essentially exploiting an oversight to walk away vastly richer than they should be each week.

Well, that really depends.

First, a mixer is obviously in a more dangerous environment to risk losing the stuff they make on a frequent basis.

Second, there isn't only the requisition system. Crooknose pointed out the reimbursement system. These are a lot more readily available and easily used by corporate characters if they figure out what to do, if they want.

Third, perks for corporate jobs are usually better than most mixer jobs.

Yes, a hustling mixer character can make more than some corporate characters who depend solely on their weekly base salary.

However, if you look around there's a lot of opportunities topside to make significant money on big projects that any character can get into with the right qualifications, and a lot of those qualifications can be achieved whether organically or with some investment.

Finally, nothing is stopping corporate characters from taking advantage of the same systems mixers use to gain extra flash. Not a single thing. Hire people to do stuff for your topside characters that make you a considerable amount of chy but also compensates those doing the legwork.

Learn fraud

Corporate characters get a higher baseline pay. They have to do, in most cases, very little to earn their money in comparison to a Mixer character and can then parlay that income into even more income through the same level of hustle a mixer might do, except with significantly less risk.

If a mixer stops hustling they are broke.

If a corpie stops hustling they still have their corporate housing, corporate gear, corporate cyber, and less potential to get ganked for going to the bar.

IRL, many "rich" people have these same issues. It isn't out of the ordinary for many to spend money on outward-facing things while lacking some stuff and keeping quiet about it.

Once upon a time I was desperate for cash and went selling vacuums door to door. We hit up neighborhoods with large houses--turned out to be the ones where people had the least money to spare. We went the next tier down in middle to lower-middle class streets, and suddenly we had customers. I also saw lots of mansions with empty rooms in them. Big spaces, tiny amount of furniture. They blew it all on the shell.

Living in Houston, I saw this too growing up with fam. Fake it til you make it. My uncle boasted having a giant house once--dude was swindling people and using the money to build an indoor pool! I never knew til the feds came knocking one day to question everyone on possible involvement.

But you know? That's a high-level Withmorian mindset for you. You don't got it? Swindle and steal til you get it. Sidle hustle quietly and hide what you don't have. It's just about running on air sometimes. Meanwhile people seen as "poor" are flaunting stuff you think they shouldn't have. That's life, discrimination and bullshit all rolled into one.

Just allow Corpies to hustle in Red. Equal opportunity for everyone.

Also: learn embezzlement.

As a comparatively new and less-experience player, my sentiments mostly echo Grizzly, Slither, and villa.

Getting into the swing of things as a Corporate character might require a different sort of learning curve. But they're hugely less likely to die while discovering that learning curve.

Another way to look at the Mixer Vs. Corpie debate is to always remind ourselves that we're not talking about JUST Mixers, here. We're talking about PC Mixers, or in other words Mixers who have a tendency towards higher-than-average potential, at least compared to that Ambient NPC population who don't even get a "Face in the crowd" kind of description at time.

What I'm getting at is, these PC Mixers (the enterprising ones) can have status/income comparable to IRL Organized Crime people. Like, the Mafia and the Yakuza. It is very possible an valuable yet young-ish member of an Organized Crime outfit is making WAY more money than an entry-level 40k-50k yearly salary.

When a Mixer (PC or otherwise) ends up making more than some Corporate characters, think of that Mixers as a promising Mafia person or whatever. They make a lot of money.

And then consider that even in the modern day, Organized Crime has shifted a great deal towards corporate-related activities. At least I'm pretty sure that's what the Yakuza does IRL (Ever wonder where the inspiration come from, when the Sindome timeline talks about Crime Syndicates incorporating?).

The point of mentioning that is: Corporate Characters have access to still doing crime to make money, like Mixers do. Fraud and embezzlement and stuff.

Mixers risk their lives for flash. Corpies risk their careers for flash.

I personally think that's more or less fair. But I could be wrong.

"Just allow Corpies to hustle in Red. Equal opportunity for everyone."

I don't know why this falsehood continues to be propagated. No one is stopping corpies from hustling in Red. There are just IC consequences for getting caught. You have to be smart, disguise up, make sure your fellow corpies or corporation do not find out. It's a risk, but like... Mixer's can't just come up to gold dressed like shit and start robbing people, or selling weapons. If a Mixer wants to hustle topside they have to blend in. And if they get too cozy topside, people start to treat them like a corpie.

The same thing goes for corpies going to the Mix. We have NEVER been against corpies going to the Mix. We are against PLAYERS with corpie characters thinking that there will be zero repercussions for going to the Mix, being seen, or getting killed.

You can do whatever you want within the theme and the rules-- you just have to accept the consequences. It's always been like this and plenty of corpies do manage to hustle quietly or secretly in the Mix, or with Mixers.

couldnt disagree more

most corpies are wage slaves and wage slaves are meant to struggle, too. just because they live in nicer places doesn't mean theyre immune to it.

if your random PR scrub from VS has gotta play the data broker, or joy, or tailor, or drug dealer on the side just to make ends meet, it's more power to them. its not like most players spend all that much time doing their actual salary jobs anyway.

whether in the mix or topside, salaries are meant to allow you to sustain yourself while you're out RP'ing with others and getting to the real chy

Another angle too: Corpies can, and often times should, be channels for all that infinite corporate flash. IC systems are in place designed to allow PC corpies access to those company funds. Yes, there are IC barriers and limitations and challenges but it is still very possible for corpies to wield that flash. Work out ways to do so. Be the face of your corp.

most corpies are wage slaves and wage slaves are meant to struggle, too. just because they live in nicer places doesn't mean theyre immune to it.

This. It's easy to buy into the logic that corporate characters are rich, and Mixers are poor. However, your own particular corporate character, unless they've risen to a very high rank, is not necessarily rich.

A lot of what you hear about the IC class divide is propaganda pushed by the corporations. They want people to buy into the idea that they're better, that they have everything great, that Mixers are animals, etc, but that's not necessarily true.

Like, this may fall into an IC scope and maybe I shouldn't be brining it up, but the theme is that the corporations are using everyone, including their own employees. The theme also expects you to use them in return. Being corporate is not a free pass to make mountains of flash, it's just a different sector of the game with different rules, responsibilities and challenges.

In an area of gameplay where everything is fueled by having money (or the appearance of having it), making money should be a primary concern. It's that need that drives corporate players to cross the line and work with Mixers to try to get ahead. Without that, we'd be living in two separate bubbles, one a murderdome and the other a fantasy-land.

In my opinion, the corpie character has a bit more of a responsibility to be creative, and to resist the temptation to stockpile all your money to make yourself into a lethal killing machine so you can go back to RED as a badass. Instead, focusing on the true goal of a corpie, which is to ascend to the highest possible level, never having 'enough', and realizing that to make money, you have to spend money. These characters should aspire to have it all, by any means necessary, taking some of the burden off the game STAFF by spending that money making moves, paying for rides, couriers, runners, hackers, bodyguards and whatever else. Greasing palms to get the guns for the their guards topside, trying to sabotage rivals, and setup lucrative operations that require skills they do not have. In turn, the resources need to be there for them to play this type of role, given some ingenuity, patience, and good roleplaying.

Maybe some folks have gotten lucky, or maybe some things have changed, but from what I had experienced, corpies don't... "get it easy" in a lot of regards, but the get screwed with in ways that don't matter to Mixers because Mixers don't give a shit about certain things that corpies do.

It's a different game, really, is what it comes down to.

One thing worries me and that there are ways to circumvent the 10k limit to something as extreme as 25k. That just doesn't tickle me in the right way, is that allowed within the rules to regularly do that?

That loop hole has to do with someone asking you to get them something that costs more than 10k and us having no way to know if you bought it and are making a small profit or if you had one and are making the entire profit. It's not against the rules. There is no sane way to police it. We've taken steps to adjust payouts, but aside from reducing ganger payouts to much lower than they are today, there is no solution.

I don't personally have a problem with someone selling a hatchet to a ganger and making money because that hatchet had to come from somewhere and there was risk involved if they managed to get it for free. That risk probably involved rp, theft, murder, etc.

If people are being meta about this and abusing the system in some way not mentioned here, xhelp or submit a private bug, and let the admin handle it.

I think something that has been missing from this thread is:

Think someone is making a lot of money? Rob them!

Instead of complaining about what we perceive as a certain character(s) making tons of flash, grab a few buddies and smash open that pinata! Crime is a backbone of the game. If you spot someone making tons of chy, make it your chy! Make an enemy, commit fraud, find a way to take their advantage and make it yours.

Get out there and do some criiiiimes mang!