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Immigrants always speak english!
Beating a dead horse.

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Yes, I've read previous posts on the subject. Most of them, at least.

In a game where everyone is an immie, isn't it a little odd that everyone comes in speaking perfect english and we discourage anyone from speaking another language right off the bat? I get it, english is the language of the game, it's the language that the city speaks, it's the perfect language to communicate freely between all characters as a default, but hasn't anyone thought it may make sense to allow immigrants to know two languages, or be partially fluent in one or the other?

I'm not going to touch on the extensive amount of UE you need to put into a language to learn it. I get it. Learning a language isn't a walk in the park. In real life, it takes months of dedication to get a basic level of reliable understanding of basic conversation. I get that it doesn't count towards UE cap. However, it's a little restrictive of character concepts.

Immigrants should realistically come from all over. In the end, after all, this is a game, and while we all appreciate realism, it seems like languages are the hardest skill to learn out of all. I don't think making such a useful roleplay tool so painful to attain is very good.

By batko at Nov 12, 2019 12:52 PM
...but hasn't anyone thought it may make sense to allow immigrants to know two languages, or be partially fluent in one or the other?

They can, and they can. Non-English fluent characters are restricted to veteran players because it is very difficult to play one at all, let alone well.

By 0x1mm at Nov 12, 2019 1:03 PM
Huh, I was under the impression, both times I played, that you choose a language and you're stuck with it. Never heard you can start knowing multiple, but last time I was around was the start of this year.
By batko at Nov 12, 2019 1:06 PM
https://www.sindome.org/bgbb/game-discussion/ideas/bilingualism-for-all-1526/
By 0x1mm at Nov 12, 2019 1:13 PM
I read through this and it seemed fairly inconclusive. Slither seemed to entertain the idea but the thread devolved fast. Is the point that a high INT learns you a new language? I knew that, but I mean something a little more accessible as a whole.
By batko at Nov 12, 2019 1:32 PM
I love the idea of all new characters have a second language, whether fluent or half developed - I feel like it'd bring alot more use to the languages and would probably make learning extra languages alot more useful than it is now.
By Constantdisplay at Nov 12, 2019 2:24 PM
Just throwing it out there, there are a few people that have gone non-English language only. It's do-able with SIC and written stuff, but is certainly challenging.

The times I've run into non-English speaking characters have made for some super fun RP though. Lots of posing and non-verbal stuff that doesn't always pop up otherwise.

By floored at Nov 12, 2019 8:30 PM
There used to be an option you discussed with staff in chargen about having a second language and you got negative ue, or having no English at all. Dunno if it's still done, but it's not a new concept
By Grizzly666 at Nov 12, 2019 8:47 PM
New players are not given this option as it is highly discouraged due to the difficulty it adds. If you know what you're doing, xhelp in chargen and you can start with a language other than english.
By Vera at Nov 12, 2019 9:29 PM
Having a UE deficit sounds interesting. Brings progression to a stand-still for a bit, but I think the roleplay added by having that second language more than makes up for that.
By batko at Nov 13, 2019 12:42 AM
You can just start with a high int, which effectively creates a UE deficit by making it so your other stats and skills are low.
By Vera at Nov 13, 2019 1:25 AM
That's an option for new players, definitely. Not ideal or well-communicated, but it's there. Without letting on or asking for too much IC information, are coded languages actually used all that much?
By batko at Nov 13, 2019 1:35 AM
I suggest you go learn this stuff in game rather than theorizing/asking about it on the ideas forum. Suffice to say there are usually good reasons why the game is set up the way it is.
By Vera at Nov 13, 2019 2:27 AM
You can select a second language if you raise your INT to very high levels during character generation (high being relative to what's possible in chargen, not in regards to what's possible within the game after chargen). This will require that you lower other stats. If your INT is high enough you will be asked to select another language shortly after stat and skill selection. If not, you didn't raise your INT enough.

And we are willing to do language swaps but this is generally not an option for newer players. As you see in 'help language' we only consider this for players who have played six months or more. This is because not speaking English or speaking it poorly really impacts your options far more than most new players expect. Learning the game is hard enough without having so many doors closed to your character due to a language barrier.

By Mobius at Nov 13, 2019 2:37 AM
I suggest you go learn this stuff in game rather than theorizing/asking about it on the ideas forum. Suffice to say there are usually good reasons why the game is set up the way it is.

Fair enough. Speculation makes one wonder if it is utilized much. I noticed Slither saying he wished it was used more in that thread that was linked earlier, but that was an entire year ago, and a lot changes.

Forcing English on new players makes sense, but it is restrictive. Needing them to understand what they are doing in the game makes a lot of sense. Just wondering if being a little more generous on secondary languages would be better for roleplay and introduce more character concepts to the game.

Pros? Cons? I'm wondering where you all stand on it. I've only gotten suggestions about boosting your INT in chargen. It's not about one character.

Out of all 'skills' (if you want to call languages that, they dont act the same as skills obviously) language is probably the most immediate to roleplay out of all. That's the definite -pro-. But, I understand why giving out free shit would be a bad idea. That's all on the list of cons.

By batko at Nov 13, 2019 10:49 AM
You've posted a complaint thread without any firsthand experience and you're polling the playerbase on things you should probably learn by going out and engaging with them. I don't know that you're going to find meaningful answers on the forum. Language is a system that serves a few niche purposes that are difficult to ex
By Vera at Nov 13, 2019 11:08 AM
(thumb slipped and I posted early)

...difficult to explain without getting into the nitty gritty of who's doing what IC right now or how certain mechanics function, or even what strategies people use and whether they're effective.

By Vera at Nov 13, 2019 11:10 AM
I don't have much experience with language specifically. With the game, I played for quite a while back earlier this year. By no means a vet like some people here, but I wouldn't say I am entirely ignorant of the game's function.

I'm asking what people think of allowing immigrants to know more than English on their arrival. Some people have expressed an interest in that. Some have not. I don't think that the question is one that is complicated or that requires much IC info. Any answer for or against it is meaningful to me, and I think I see where you stand.

Apologies if I am too new to be speaking on the subject.

By batko at Nov 13, 2019 12:21 PM
As Mobius said, "As you see in 'help language' we only consider this for players who have played six months or more." ☺️
By ynk at Nov 13, 2019 12:38 PM
Sorry, hit send too early.

The other thing you've mentioned is a thing and it does happen. ☺️

By ynk at Nov 13, 2019 12:42 PM
Batko:

Characters already can start the game with a second language if they start with high enough INT. This is a thing now. You can do it. As I described in my previous post. :-)

By Mobius at Nov 13, 2019 3:13 PM
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