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Pot shots and sniping
A suggestion

After seeing some pot shots occur in game, it appears that the message that is displayed to the room when someone shoots into an adjacent room is kinda funky. It displays who shot, as well as what they are shooting with.

Personally, I think that is kind of open to some meta. Now, I can understand if you are one room over on a crowded street, and shooting at someone in an adjacent "room" on the streets. It might make sense for someone to see you and what you are shooting with.

However, does this still make sense if you are shooting out of a window or a roof at an elevated position with no ambience and out of a persons natural line of sight? It just seems like things such as taking care to provide hidden Sniper fire or covering fire falls by the wayside here because even if you are disguised with a silencer taking a suprise shot from the roof top people still act like they saw you and the firearm you had before you lined up the shot then booked it.

I am personally a fan of the old message you recieved of just getting shot or shot at..


It might be a bug that people in other rooms still see that message... I've been told it's meta to use that information to identify your shooter.
Perhaps it is? Either way it is totes open to some meta.
I recommend @bugging it, they might not know it's still an issue.
From the post on sniping I read wayyy back in the day, I was under the impression that whether you can spot a sniper was a stat check when being in the same room as being sniped.

I'd really appreciate some clarification if it's a bug. That's a bummer. As for weapon identification - I agree that it's speculative at best. If anything you should be able to speculate on the caliber with bullet removal or maybe the sound of gunshots but that should be a forensics check which is better discussed here...

Reef, if you recall back in the day you got the singular message of getting shot, that was realistic. There is ALOT of factors in counter sniping, especially in an Urban environment, which just gave me a cyberware Idea.....

But you are correct that the bullet size could be determined by bullet removal and the gun presumed to be one that fit that caliber and the detective work could begin...but it kinda throws a lot out the window by just going

"Oh, yeah, it was Steve again with his Glock. I saw him quickly shoot me from some rooftop and then run away in some direction."


Counter sniping is a pretty crazy endeavor. I think we have a bit of catch-22 because of game balance vs reality but I wholeheartedly agree this is something which should be a bit more vague.

The concept of being able to ID someone who isn't disguised and sniping is one that really irks me, honestly. I think we should rectify it with the following...

Each of these would be dependent on various perceptions checks...

* It should be short_desc whether disguised or not. Citing at least one garment of clothing as it normally does.

* Gun is described as type i.e. Pistol, Rifle, Etc.

* Should "Scope Glint" be a factor if someone uses the firearm mod?

* Calibur should be possibly detected by sound but muffled by silencers.

Otherwise, I'm not sure sniping needs to be balanced out much more. It's powerful but more in a tactical sense than an outright one...with exception to a few weapons. I would like a way to point out a shooter or return fire...even if it's just laying down cover fire to prevent additional sniper shots.

I'm hip to the cyberware idea too. I think various cyberware currently in-game would greatly compliment the various perception checks. I've always felt TruSight is a little in the meh department so maybe that could be combined with your boomerang system idea.

Overall, I feel like the ID'ing suggestion would integrate well with the existing code without a shitload of work...but I'm speculating and could be completely wrong.

Can still see when people are prepping to shoot you, and with what gun too.
Reply which begs the question on how do you react to that as a player? Some people take it as "Oh I saw the name! I sawwww the name!" And some people act accordingly to "Oh I got shot st god knows where I better run if I don't want to catch another one."
I really think that there has to be some level of risk involved in sniping someone. To that end, I think that there should be several levels of information you could gain when being sniped depending on perception, distance, number of shots fired and factors like that. Every time you shoot your gun into another room the people there should have a chance to spot you and learn a little about you.

For example the amount of information could range like:

- Nothing. You just know that you got shot.

- Bullet direction.

- Bullet direction and location.

- Bullet direction, location and short desc.

- Bullet direction, location, short desc and name (unless disguised).

- Bullet direction, location, short desc, name (unless disguised) and gun type (pistol, rifle, ect...).

Maybe there already is more risk involved that I know of (a very real possibility) but what I've read and seen so far makes it sound like you aren't really risking much as long as you pick a good position, have an escape plan and don't take too long before moving out.

I can see room to room, or street to street, but building windows and roof tops?

The drawback to sniping, unless using an actual rifle, is that your damage is greatly reduced. Greatly. In a real life scenario, there is little draw back to taking a pot shot and running away if you had good conver and concealment outside of someones normal line of sight. The games drawback is reduced damages and hit chances. We preach ambience so much but I just find it odd that you can be walking down the street talking to someone on your progia and spot Billy sticking his popop out the window and taking a shot at you before ducking out and running away. Meh. I just remember a time when you only saw the hit or missed shot. Was a bit less immersion breaking.

I haven't played with firearms so my input here is extremely limited, but I agree with Reefer on the perception checks and the different tiers of information.

I also have a problem with display names. While it applies to anything, it's even more apparent here. The fact that you see a display name should -not- mean in any way that you know who that person is. Display names should not be IC information, ever. It is highly meta in my book to act IC based on display names.

I don't think so. As far as I've seen and heard, seeing someone's display name means you'd be able to recognize them if you saw them again. It's how the entire disguise mechanic is designed as far as I can see.

If I am fighting 'shrouded average man' and during that fight 'shrouded average man' becomes 'Jimmy', then his disguise slipped enough for me to know it was him if I see 'Jimmy' running around later on. If I was asked what they looked like by another character I would have to stick with something like, "I didn't catch any details, but I'd know them if I saw them again."

This is why it is so important to remove that display name from these sniping messages unless they are meant to be acted on. Because everything else in SD says that if you see their display name then you will recognize them if you see them again.

It is also why I consider it to be top tier information that might be perceived by the ones being shot at. If you get that then you have something you can actually work with.

Noooo...I meant that people shouldn't be able to use it to say 'Jimmy' attacked me, without knowing that 'Jimmy' IC, or start asking around about a 'Jimmy' simply because of the display name. If you don't know that 'Jimmy' already, he's just another face among thousands. Sure you can ask around about a bald stocky guy with a purple glowy eye, but the display name should not be an identifier. If next time you see 'Jimmy' with a beard and without a glowy eye, I don't think you should be able to make a connection that the guy drinking cinnamon kiss next to you was the guy that shot from the window of the third floor of say Ashlin Crown a week ago.
At all other points in the game (except maybe when the lights are off), a display name implies that you have seen enough to potentially recognize the person if you see them again. To my knowledge the current issue of display names on snipers is a bug and you're not allowed to recognize them for that? If not I think it should be more clear.

In any event it would one hundred percent cause accidental abuse if people saw Jimmy but didn't realize that they weren't supposed to know they saw Jimmy.

I had Slither test this and he was unable to reproduce it. There must be some special circumstances causing the identity to be passed in the message. All our testing with room to room, roof top sniping, etc produced no indication of the shooter.

Is it possible it's JUST window sniping? I believe that's special code on select rooms.

Please do some further testing and send the logs to [email protected] If it IC for you to do so.

For clarification, If Anderson shot you from the Gold Skywalk while you're on Fuller, 20 rooms down, and it said "Anderson shot you." No, that's not IC.
Hey Cerb if we are IG at the same time I have no problem trying to help reproduce it if it's a bug because I've seen this on four different occasions, but never thought to log it.
There is a distinctive instance where I go something comparable to a "A shrouded goat ninia shoots you with rocket launcher."

Windows may indeed be the issue here.

I agree that someone sniping you from twenty rooms away should leave your character unable to get much info on them. Which is why I would consider distance a pretty important factor when determining how much info someone might be possibly gain when they are shot at.
We fixed this, sorry forgot to post it.

There's another bug I found though, if you jam your weapon, you can still snipe. I ask that people who notice this happening choose to stop sniping. The bug will be fixed within a day or so, probably.

Numba won double gewd
There's another issue with sniping and possibly gunshots in general that the *bang* carries the attackers accent. Super meta.
You @bug that?
I've noticed this, not sure if I remembered to @bug it. It also happens through phones when banging on a door or producing another loud noise.