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Corporate Loan Terminals
Peons of the modern age!

There are a handful of options currently in the game for players who want to get a loan, including one with an automated collections and bounty system. As a suggestion, I think corporations could serve to have a similar system, with similar terminals, but with collection, acceptance, and other details handled by appropriate player positions.

Conceptually, taking out a loan with a corp shouldn't offer too much money without GM oversight (5-10kc). Players in positions such as PR (branding it as a 'grant', possibly) could handle accepting or denying loans, while corporate security handles collections.

Topside corporations should automatically refuse to take applications from corporate citizens, while syndicates should grant loans to just about anyone, incentivizing corpies to secretly head to Red if they need some money.

The ultimate goal is getting players to utilize loan forgiveness. Like reimbursements but in reverse, players can enter a reason to shave off debt from the loan for services rendered into the terminal for approval by their superiors, much like a reimbursement.

Since it's player-operated, there shouldn't be abuse regarding taking loans from dormant factions, as there would be none to process the applications. The terminals can present a list of overdue loans to employees, and it's their job to pursue closure of the loans through either clone death or payment of late fees through the same system, incentivizing extracting services from the indebted to spur intrigue plots.

To designate this thread as the real one (sorry, double post since my phone is funny) here's some more concepts discussed on XOOC.

A social credit score tracked by the WJF or WSB could lock you out of getting loans from topside corporations, forcing you to go with the much more predatory, shady, higher interest syndicates for a loan. Getting fined or otherwise judged, fired from a corporate or service job, etcetera, would harm your score. Being part of a gang or being unemployed for a long time would also hurt your score. Etcetera etcetera.

I like the idea of grants from megaocporations out to people on a small scale and then using corporate security to handle the issue, protecting assets, if it goes awry. Gives something new to add into the mix (no pun intended) for the usual cycle of corporate security responsibilities.
Transactions under 40k minimum or so should be considered a waste of time for any Megacorporate employee, be it PR or CorpSec Agents, to even give attention to.
I think if the WJF can spend time tracking down 5kc fines, megacorporations can spend time tracking down 10kc loans/grants. Currently, I think there's actually a lack of obvious things to do for corpies, so I don't think the apathetic route is beneficial for the game here.
This isn't being apathetic, this is theme.

You're not going to a small independent lender. Those exist.

You're not even going to a loan institition like a bank. That exists.

You're not even going to a massive corporation with near infinite resources, no.

You're going to the guys that print and issue the money themselves. Every single bill you'll get has their name on it.

The WJF goes after fines they issue because they enforce the law and their authority through it, but if I told a Director of Security that I need his agents to go beat up some mixer over 5k I'd expect them to laugh in my face. You're creating an overhead of megacorp employees having to deal with issuing, overseeing, checking in and collecting on these loans and then want to have an Agent with so, so much more value in equipment and chrome go down to beat some guy up over 5k?

If you're missing small loans opportunities, ask for small loans opportunities, but the Corps should be the big one. HOWEVER, they should also be allowed to be independent. So WJF or WSB can keep whatever database they want, but the Corp shouldn't be bound to it or have loans to people automatically locked. They can do what they want, and that way people can manage their corporate relations if they ever want to have a loan, or even go on a spree to burn them all, or lend from one to pay off the other, so on.

Megacorps are so large some of them aren't even contained by what fraction of them exists on Earth. Withmore as a city is nothing but their fingertip, and people are acting like they're local stores less significant than even the local bank.

Does a Judge go down to the mix to go beat up mixers over their fines? I think you're overthinking it a bit.

All of what you're saying about the scale of corporations is essentially true, but it's not like corporate security agents or any other corporate PC is some bigwig executive. Withmore is just the fingertip, great, and you're a speck of dust on that fingertip, even as a corporate citizen.

Let's go with a deregulatory route then, to give it all to the players.

The player can issue -whatever- size loan they want. Not just 10k, not minimum 40k. Whatever they want. They have a guy they think is trustworthy who needs small change they wanna give like 7k to because they expect zero problems on repayment? Go ahead. Someone else wants a big, high risk package? Their call.

If they end up wrong on the small fry guy and there is a problem, let it be the burden of the player to convince security it is worth their time and potential risk to life and gear to do something about it, and have a period after which the balance must be covered, even if it comes out of someone's paycheck. The player could also have the option to sell the loan on at that time, on their own or on the corps behalf, to provide a place for an independent Collections industry.

Unless I am mistaken, PCow, I believe the point of facilitating it through corporations is to uniquely give corpsec a responsibility that would become part of the day-to-day. Doing so while facilitating a free flow of chyen is just a nice cherry on top.

I think there is worth in the idea of placing more onuses to handle biz on corpsec agents. Corpsec is portrayed as a high tension gig thematically. Giving them things that must be handled due to some other branch's bureaucracy would be fitting on a thematic level and healthy on a 'things to do' level.

If someone is handing out bad risky loans and that is bothersome to the agents who have to handle it, awesome, interoffice strife!

For what it’s worth, corpsec hunts down mixers over utterances on pubSIC. Why not over 5k?

I like the idea of corpsec having more to do instead of just waiting in lobbies for the action to come to them. Note - they should have more they’re -allowed- to do. Not more they’re -obligated- to do.

I think that's exactly what I'm recommending with the deregulated approach @SoftAndWet. Plus if independent collectors spring up and often work with a corp, it creates a CorpSec recruitment pipeline in those individuals, too.

I just feel thematically that if at some point a Senior was running around spending their time on 5k loan contracts, the corporation would look at them and wonder what the hell they're doing, but all of that can be enforced much more organically and ICly than by having some sort of super low 10k lending limit.

Likewise, though, this is -individual- mixers that are being dealt with, rather than Mixers as a group, and I always felt there should be a large degree of "A single Mixer has almost no way to be heard other than through violence" applied to that sort of thing to create Cyberpunk atmosphere.

As for svetlana's example, I think that's a policy choice, not necessarily a thematic one. I would actually consider much of how an entirely corporate-constituted City handles the ability for people to dissent on the public network a concession to gameplay.

On the topic of theme, however, I think it's worth pointing out that syndicates are corps and that the real-world counterparts to each of them all built their empires in part on loan sharking. Debt and how it's used to control others in hyper-capitalist cyberpunk society is just a good point of theme, and I think the semi-recently added loan terminals have contributed a lot to making plots around those aspects of the setting. I just think it can be pushed a little further, too.
I have always agreed that syndicates should absolutely be acting more corporate and business-like specifically because they're noted as having incorporated in the timeline and that they should in fact have more corp-to-corp dealings, having gained a bit of "respectable representation" in the corporate world, so I'm totally with you on that, batko.

I believe one such loan shark business already exists, and has existed long before the more recent terminals, however.

It does, which is what I mentioned earlier in terms of automated payment and collections and even bounties, but I think if a similar system was delegated to players it would be a great plot device.
I get ya on the odd optics of a Senior Agent running around with that price tag in mind. I just imagined the low lending limit would be a concession for the sake of letting players dole them out (or forgive) with relative frequency and without major oversight.

As to the potential new responsibilities attached to this idea, Svetlana, I think it's okay in the same vein most 'obligations' in SD aren't deadline focused, more just there for direction. Plenty of high level jobs and factions come with them, but they're generally about working towards the goal as opposed to accomplishing it.

The issue with loans in Sindome is that players routinely and unerringly abandon or suicide their characters to the point where players are no longer trusted to fill unique game functional roles. In borrowing terms this is in effect like all loans being issued to zero collateral, zero credit terminal centenarians with no estate, but even worse in in-game terms because the effective lender is in practice the 'central bank' (ie. chyen is being created for the loan) so all defaults become inflationary of the economy as a whole.

The benefit of player/player loans is they automatically balance themselves out by removing currency from the economy to issue credit, and repayment comes from activity so there is a net gain in activity at the cost of zero inflation... technically I think it's even deflationary because there lender can't borrow against the issued loan like a bank could. Which is all good because it keeps the game's economy from spiraling out of control with excessive available supply of items and chyen.

Any loans that involve creating chyen out of thin air would risk huge amounts of inflation, even more so because the assets they purchase are often effectively permanent (example being those ~20 bikes that rotate owners and depress that part of the vehicle market). The chyen from lending would need to either come from somewhere practically, or any lending would have to be front loaded by required player activity that made the chyen borrowed equivalent to the usual compensation for any other kind of player activity.

However my sense is that loans, of any kind, with any collateral or terms, encourage character abandonments and re-rolls as a general rule when available to anyone, and end up overall being counterproductive.

While it's off topic, people REALLY hate tolls, but with 0x1mm's input, they did play an important part in the mix. It used to be that half of all tolls were handed straight to the gang NPCs, which actually ended up deflating the Mix a lot, I'd say.