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Grappling martial arts?
Maybe add some grappling martial arts to the mix?

There's so many grappling arts that exist, yet on one, maybe two if you count krav maga, are actually in the game. And the only grappling martial art that IS in the game, muay thai, is primarily striking. Just think it would be cool to have some more options when it comes to fighting on the ground. instead of just "grapple" "resist" and that's it. I know there's a strangle feature, maybe elaborate on that. Maybe have moves like "reverse" where you try to change position so that you're in a dominant position. Maybe have some wrestling style slams in the mix. It may be too much of a pain to add this, or maybe it's just not that interesting to others, I find it interesting because I do mma in real life, and I keep thinking of all the things I would do in my characters situation, but I have no way of doing it. There are plenty of things to do if someone's got a hold of you in wrestling, jiu jitsu, judo, and even muay thai and akido. You can pick them up, you can slam them, you can sweep them, you can hit them with one of your other limbs (knees most usually) stuff like that. Not like the game NEEDS this, just thought it would add some spice to the grappling aspect of fighting is all. (also im sick of being a god damn puppet everytime someone grapples me, Its not all about strength!!!)
I could see something in the grappling department, for sure. But whole martial arts on it is kind of silly. As I recall the martial arts are inherently the same thing with different messages.
I think these could be pretty neat additions. I'd like some more moves while grappled, at least.

I'll address one thing, though: Grappling is not based solely on strength in the game.

I i think it would just be better to have more options while grappling is all, dont really NEED a martial art for it.
The brawling skill will get those 'grappling martial arts' you want in time. :)
Grappling martial arts aside, I really would love to have an option to reverse the position instead of just resist when being grappled. It could depend on a skill + mostly agility and a bit of str, give nice alternative out of a choke hold.
That's actually a neat and new suggestion, Marleen! 'reverse' would be a cool command to add for that.
That would be a cool way to let Agility help you out of those situations, instead of trying to brute out of it with resist.
I would still like to see a strike option where grappled players could inflict light damage with a proper roll such as a MA striker getting in a quick pop to the jaw or blade wielders managing to get in a cut.
Thanks! To flesh it out, and basing mostly on RL experience as I don't know much about combat mechanics, attempting a reversal should cost you end the holder a lot of energy and have multiple possible stages of success. Perfect success = you now have the enemy in choke hold and he lost a lot more energy than you did. Perfect failure = you've expended a lot of energy and accomplished nothing, getting very close to being choked out.

This is a lot more sill than brawn, so martial arts makes sense to me as a skill.

Yeah, doing these 'maneuvers' is not just about speed obviously and it would probably tax your fatigue too.
It would be good to see 'grapple' require a 'disarm' first.

The mechanics involved in getting someone in a chokehold pretty much precludes any sort of defense on the attacker's part. They are relying on their position behind the person being choked as 'defense'. That works fine when the opponent is unarmed. It doesn't work well at all when the opponent has a blade or a short barreled firearm (like a pistol).

All that being said, the hand to hand system here is pretty good. A real choke hold is going to end a fight in a few seconds once you get it locked in. The fact that it takes much longer than that in game to choke someone out implies, to me, that there is still a lot of struggling going on. By struggling I mean active resistance and skill checks being done via the 'resist' command.

i just wanna say that its best to keep things as simple as possible, and I REALLY hope that theres a bjj blackbelt or ex wrestler somewhere on staff that can help out with the mechanics of the game. In real life, there are these kinds of marital artists that just preach theory and have little to no fighting experience at all saying stuff like "that would never work in a real fight" or "this technique works in any situation" (common phrases in bullshido practitioners) and I really don't want that ignorance seeping in to the game. It can literally just be as simple as typing "lift" and u either pick up the guy holding you (or vice versa) or you fail. The whole point of this isn't to focus on the martial arts aspect, I care less about having a character that knows mma and that can do flying armbars and shit and MORE about being able to use agility for fighting instead of strength, that's the only issue at hand. Johnny said that the brawling style would get some of these grappling moves, and that seems like a red flag to me. That sounds like you ARE adding more options to the grappling system, but they're still focused on strength checks, meaning "the little guy" has no chance of beating a hulking brute, which is not the case in real life. That's just a first glance assumption though, maybe agility will come in to play in the update and if that's the case then hooray.
I forgot to mention this but vero brought it up, It would also be nice if you could attack the person while in a grapple. If im grappling someone, and i have them in any basic position where I'm attacking them with a submission, they would have an opportunity to stab or shoot me in most scenarios, excluding those where you just have a submission locked in air tight and the guy can't do a thing without getting something snapped, popped, or crackled.
In response to hek, I doubt that what they mean by "choke hold" is someone taking your back, getting their hooks in, and getting their arm in deep around the neck. I'm pretty sure it's just some basic streetfighter stuff where you either just have both hands on the guys neck or maybe have him in a headlock or something.I feel like adding the whole positioning hierarchy to the mix would just unnecessarily over complicate things.
to ergoproxy, It's not about speed it's about technique.
Also johnny that "reverse" maneuver marleen was talking about is in the original post, I don't know why he took credit for it.
Also ergo, Everything in the game causes fatigue to some extent, even sitting down. No need to add any extra mechanics to it all.
Wait.. I hear brawling grapple moves?

Basically, something like this?

I was thinking more along the lines of this, lmao
.
idk how to post gifs... :(
@Vlax

It's without space in

@Vlax

It's img(Link goes here)/img with img and /img between [ and ].

imghttps://preview.redd.it/1v2fsdsobb101.gif?format=mp4&s=f82245705250c68c6dde1d3bbd47c2d8326eab27/img
duck it >:(
@Vlax

Nah, since I can't use the command without it freaking out so I'll insert an image as an example.

yeah like that lol
Its tough to stay on topic, clearly and this is an old topic. The balance is fine for now to be honest. Please read the grappling revamped thread, because it touches already on a lot of the stuff mentioned in here already.

By the styles they meant, the actual messages you see, like MA has Jujitsu, Krav Maga, etc. When you fight it show different messages. Brawling would have BJJ, Box, Karate, whatever.

People as always get distracted by mechanics instead of thinking about flavor. Style, is a very themely thing and key to the genera. Its not so much what can you do, but *how* you do it.

Also although not necessary, it would be neat to be able to push people around literally out of a room similar as how shove works with rooftop edge, etc.

I still maintain that each style should have its own bonus. IE (I’m no expert keep in mind this is a random example) Taijotsu gives you a bonus on defense and parry. Krav magra a bonus to offense and slight penalty to defense, WWE wrasslein a bonus to charisma (joke).
@Grizz

The concept of styles each having their own pluses and minuses is a good one. It kind of falls apart at the higher levels though.

While everyone starts with one style, what eventually happens is people start cross training. They also adapt the style to their body type and own capabilities and physical limitations.

Then you get to the point where a body can only move so many ways, a joint wants to move one way and not another, etc. And then it really doesn't matter what 'style' you use because you're just using what is effective for any given situation.

It would be great if we can avoid recreating the 'my style is better than yours' argument that ALWAYS comes up when people start talking about martial arts / combat. People who have been training for a long time are going to agree that it comes down to the practitioner and not the art.

All the technique in the world is not going to save the 150lb guy fighting the 250lb guy if they have both been dedicated to honing their bodies and training. That is why there are weight classes. When two equally 'skilled' opponents compete, 99% of the time the bigger / stronger person is going to win. There is a reason that most bouncers are big, burly guys and not lithe, agile Bruce Lee types.

To keep it on topic, maybe there could be an @fatal like switch for 'resist'. The default would be 'escape' with the option to 'reverse'. Reversing would be more difficult than escaping.

Ok it’s just a game man. You learn one style. If it had bonuses and whatnot that’s what you would get.
@Grizz

I'm right there with you. It's just a game.

The current system is a good compromise between playability and realism.

The style thing doesn't really have any foundation in reality though, a style of fighting is different from the actual martial art. You can be a defensive boxer or wrestler that focuses on counter punching or take down defense, or you could be an offensive boxer or wrestler that focuses on unloading punches or driving nonstop with all your takedowns.It's not a technique thing it's really just a personality thing. Also that mechanic is already in the game with postures, however i wish you could have a default posture. Like you could choose which posture you automatically have when you attack someone and then a different one (or the same) when you get attacked. I'm sick of wasting a turn in combat changing in to a defensive posture when i'm attacked.
by defensive i mean "guarded"
My opinion on reverse: If they've already grappled you unless you got really unlucky/they really lucky, or have a certain piece of chrome that once engaged boosts the challenged stat... It's never going to proc. Because that person will likely just continue to beat you.

That's why it didn't let me have archer as my username...