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Hide and look

As I was told, if you hide in an adjacent room, even with no hiding skills, that is going to make you invisible from someone checking into that direction.

This seems the extremely gamey thing to do, where a person who otherwise has no chance to hide whatsoever, suddenly can completely circumvent someone who is careful and check the rooms before walking into them. Is this intended, can it be fixed?

Perhaps make it half as easier to hide when in the next room. Say your skill is X. And everyone can see you. But when your in the next room, your skill is 2X or X+2 or whatever and people who have the attributes exceeding that can still see you from the adjoining rooms.
Yep, that would make sense to make it more challenging. But when 0 skill is as good as master, that's far from great.
This is blatantly untrue. Unless the people tailing me that I can't see when they are in the room with me, suddenly are forgetting to sneak as I move around.
This is blatantly untrue. Unless the people tailing me that I can't see when they are in the room with me, suddenly are forgetting to sneak as I move around.
The issue is not when you are in the same room, but rather when the person is in adjacent rooms. As I said, i don't know with 100% confidence that it is the case, but had few people say that to me icly.
The issue is not when you are in the same room, but rather when the person is in adjacent rooms. As I said, i don't know with 100% confidence that it is the case, but had few people say that to me icly.
What I meant to say is this. I'm being tailed by someone sneaky, I double back, and look where I've been, sometimes I'll see the person tailing me. I've done this six times now at various points over various characters. And each time, doubling back, or looking in each direction as I walk has allowed me to sometimes but now always spot the person that attacks me in the next stretch of trek. This may be intentional or not. I figured it was just intended behavior.
What I meant to say is this. I'm being tailed by someone sneaky, I double back, and look where I've been, sometimes I'll see the person tailing me. I've done this six times now at various points over various characters. And each time, doubling back, or looking in each direction as I walk has allowed me to sometimes but now always spot the person that attacks me in the next stretch of trek. This may be intentional or not. I figured it was just intended behavior.
There is cyberware to mitigate this.

Otherwise, how could you expect to see every detail in the next city block over, or a crowded clubs bathroom from the bar?

I am not against it being harder to spot in adjacent room, not at all. But it sounds silly that someone with 0 hiding ability will get as much cover as master level, don't you think? I mean, if you can't hide, you can't hide.
I am not against it being harder to spot in adjacent room, not at all. But it sounds silly that someone with 0 hiding ability will get as much cover as master level, don't you think? I mean, if you can't hide, you can't hide.
Honestly, no. Hard no, in my opinion, unless it is stat related, such as having a really good perception. The way it's done makes sense to me. Looking into the next room will likely have hundreds of people (on the street). Maybe if they're just standing there like a numpty and you look to the next square you can be like 'Away I recognize this dude.'. But if they're like, squatting behind a dumpster on lambs wake as a crowd of one thousand walks past and you look northward, why would you see them, no matter their skill?
Also yeah cyber can do this.
It makes perfect sense to me. Consolidate your local cyberdoc to learn how to overcome this.
The reason for it is that it essentially removes a lot of advantage that comes from investing heavily into sneak skill. Yes, they will see you AFTER walking into the room if your skill is low, but if your plan is to kill them then, well, your ambush is already a success as you can now attack them without an issue. It reduces the value of hiding skill to just-in-the-same-room, which if you plan to ambush someone is not that great deal at all.

No. No it doesn't. Sneak is sneak. It does the sneak things. It's massively useful. This just makes sense the way it is.
In addition. My bad for double post, but if they don't want to get bushwhacked, chrome. It has been this way as long as I've been here.
Chrome is not always a viaable option, more so when it just doesn't make sense to me as a new player that 0 skill hide can give you such massive advantage, and the only answer to that is chrome, not stats or skills, which is a bit of silly, as you may have insanely high perception, but still 0 skill person can ambush you with 100% guarantee.
If you're afraid of being ambushed, then sneak yourself.

Like Seir said, it makes sense that you can't suddenly zoom a room away and check every hiding spot. It's realistic. Even if you have shit hiding skill, it's not like someone can just stay out of your eye sight or just be in a crowd of people or hide behind a dumpster and you won't notice them until you get closer. You could be a ninja all you want but without chrome you're still human. You don't have super eye sight or xray vision or binocular eyes that let you see far.

While I don't disagree with the current system, I think Seir could adjust his tone a bit, coming of as quite rude and close-minded. And also, how long have you been here Seir, because I've only noticed you within the past few weeks or so but you talk as if you're OG?
can't just stay away*
Someone’s lack of skill in hiding in this particular area shouldn’t grant you the ability to see past all of the mechanics in play to spot them. There are many things to consider that can justify that if you want to really get into it. If you are worried about getting ambushed, buy the corresponding cyberware, or buy a car, or hire a bodyguard, or don’t be so predictable. There are coded and rp measures around your concerns of an ambush, which doesn’t really justify changing this either.
Who the FUCK is that midget a mile away hiding under a manhole with that turtle?! Man, shit!
Who the FUCK is that midget a mile away hiding under a manhole with that turtle?! Man, shit!
This is very situational, but if I understand correctly the complaint is:

'Everyone can use the skill hide to stop appearing in 'look' in adjacent rooms.'

To which the reasoning is, of course they can. In a massive street you can just not be visible a city street away. Thats very logical in game. In a small house, you can be behind the door, behind the wall. Walk into the next room and lay flat against the wall next to the door. You're hidden! You're not hidden well of course, anyone walking into the room will immediately see you because you're unskilled and hide out in the open.

What you're suggesting is removing hide as a usable skill unless you have any points spent. That doesn't make sense, as its a usable skill everyone has. Like attack, like look, like search, like inspect. You can hide. You just hide bad.

When someone looks into the next room they aren't doing a thorough search of all people. They're getting a brief idea of who may be in the next room. They can't see clothing, combat, the room, or anything beyond some names of visible items.

Hope that makes sense. Yes, anyone can hide in a room and not be seen until someone enters the room, because that is just blocking someones direct line of sight, not using any form of skill.

It's really not a super skill to spot someone who thinks they are perfectly well hiding behind a dumpster, but due to their lack of experience in hiding their ass and drawn weapon is sticking out. That's what lack of knowing how to hide looks like, and it sticks out of the thousands of people, just like actually sneaking across the street, but failing the skill check does - and is a valid reason to zero-in on the sneaking person as it makes you stand out out of the crowd. Someone trying to hide, badly, stands out even more. Y

ou can of course just stand in the crowd, and that should not be suspicious to see random hood+immie clothes on "west" from you, hundreds of those everywhere. But to see someone who is poorly trying to hide? Same logic as used against failed sneak attempts - which means that its something that makes you stand out of the crowd.

I am not suggesting removal of hide from others, not at all. Just that whether you will spot them will depend on actual skill check, not arbitrary 100% success chance. Can be a lot harder than same room, that's all good. But having something so important that is guaranteed to be successful and can only be countered by chrome is pretty silly.
Not even remotely being a wizard (coder) I can't speak wizard language or magics, but I would imagine requiring that a look to adjacent room calls a spot check on the looker's stats to the hider's hide would be a use of resources that the wizards don't want.

Now if your idea is "When you look in an adjacent room, your stats should allow you to see hidden people like you do when you enter a room," then hey, that is a definite idea to suggest. I have no idea if its easy wizard magic or hard wizard magic, but I don't think its an invalid suggestion, I'm just explaining why at the moment it makes sense, in my opinion.

So across everything in your room, and then everything in the other room, you should be able to spot someone sticking out of a dumpster? Bear in mind that 'room' doesn't necessarily mean a 4x4 cube. Some rooms are long as fuck streets. Some rooms are hallways. Some rooms are massive concourses and terminals and lobbies.

Your character may be good at hiding. But like I said, it still doesn't grant them superman sight to see behind walls or have sharp eagle eyes that zoom in on places and look at every single detail in one room over.

Like Dreamer and I said, someone might be just pressed up against the wall. Someone might be behind a dumpster but since it's a long as fuck street with the amount of bodies you can't spot their gun sticking out, because your eyes don't go that far.

You're human. Get chrome. Be more than human.

If this is ever done it should be hard as FUCK to see. Like. Incredibly. No matter how bad there is no way you gonna see a dude chilling out of an alley on a street block of three thousand.
The only compromise I can think of is to include room sizes and have a command like search east which not only incorporates your hiding skill but also relevant stats to search the adjacent room to see if there's something amiss or out of place.
A 'search direction' might not be a bad idea, again unsure how much wizard magic is required for that.

'Get Chrome' is definitely not the answer if the request is functionality. I think Marleen is asking for a light advantage, hiding/unhiding people. Chrome gives you a huge advantage of seeing all the things.

But you are not chilling out there, you are trying to hide, those are very different things. Just hanging out is literally standing there, like everyone else, but you are actively trying to not be seen, and possibly doing it very poorly which should draw eyes. Just like IRL you will spot someone crouching behind too small dumpster and give him very weird looks, and ignore all the others just walking by.
It entirely depends and there's coded room sizes already. Like I said the only thing I can think of if you're in a pad and there's someone hiding in the bedroom while you're in the living room and you wanna check. But then again it doesn't make sense how you'd say, check under the bed without actually walking in there by just looking in the room unless you had chrome that let you look closer at things.
Yes but can you see someone hiding behind a dumpster, through hundreds of people on the street, and from two blocks over realistically with human eyes?
Someone badly hiding? Yes, if you are paranoid enough to actively look forward where you are going (aka look ) then you should have a chance to spot someone acting in a suspicious fashion. That is kinda how I used to avoid mugging my whole life, by keeping eyes in front of me, and if see some dudes trying to hide in the gate, take a different path.
“Get chrome “ is definitely a viable answer with all things considered.
No offense Marleen but I think your perspective is probably informed by a lack of experience. Spend some time playing the game and you'll see it's not really as cut and dried as you think, there are checks and balances for everything.
Vera, if there are, I am glad to hear it. But that is not what are the other playrs ICly and OOCly saying, or what I have seen so far ICly.
"Just like IRL you will spot someone crouching behind too small dumpster and give him very weird looks, and ignore all the others just walking by."

yes, you would, if you were in the same vicinity as them.

if you are in another room, you are not in the same vicinity, especially if you're on the street. a city block contains a ton of people, red sector is more dense than real life manila or hong kong. if someone's hiding badly the next block over, i wouldnt expect to be able to see them through the hundreds, maybe thousands of people that could be blocking my view

your idea makes sense for more lightly populated rooms like alleys, roofs, hallways, maybe with closer to zero ambient population. i wouldnt be opposed to a search function based on that

I'm not going to type up a strategy guide OOC for how to access these checks and balances, suffice to say I've spent dozens of hours using stealth in PVP activities and there are many, many ways to circumvent it.

Being afraid of stalkers is a reasonable IC concern and you should take that concern IC. Get people to teach your character and learn that way. Otherwise you're just asking people to break the rules and post game mechanics on the forum for your IC benefit.

Also, just to lay this out. People won't just ignore you if they walk by you "hiding" in a room waiting for someone. There are times I've been hiding for self preservation--poorly--and have been accused of bad things or threatened with physical harm. So there are still consequences for hiding in THAT room, especially if you're real shit at it.