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Higher pay for topside crate running.
Ending the scarcity!

I think a lot of you are aware of the scarcity of certain elements in topside shops due to people not running crates there. As far as I'm aware of they payment from such job is coded so I suggest topside crate running pay better than ACME so that people can actually have an incentive to go topside and run crates.

Agreed. It probably doesn't even need to be increased very much, honestly. It's felt like an ongoing issue for a while now, and to be frank it's been immersion-breaking for me, personally. Are all these shops on Green really standing by while they have (sometimes) relatively empty shelves? Losing business?

Some of the recent IC things players have done to increase motivation for topside couriers are interesting but don't seem particularly themely to me. I really don't buy that 99% of corpies would be caught dead doing basically any of them. I don't want to push discussion any deeper than that because I don't want to specify IC events.

I think it's reasonable and themely that topside runs should net more pay, and should require a higher standard of presentation of the courier of course (I think this is already the case) considering the higher scrutiny they receive. It also encourages more mixer/topside interaction which feels like almost always a good way to produce conflict / RP.

I rate this as well. Taking the levs usually also costs you a lot of time waiting about, not to mention it can be kind of boring for the player, and with the low amounts you're getting paid, it's almost not worth it, unless you already have a vehicle or something, to drive around.

I'd say to reduce the salary cap so that low-level corpie or half-corpies can do them as well. In Red, they can supplement any job with at least a few days of Acme crate runs.

I disagree. I think the relative safety afforded topside courier's vs. there Red Sector counterparts is sufficient...especially if you take into account that those who invest in topside valued characteristics will already receive a higher pay-out.

In my opinion, Crates are the lowest rung of SD. The stock shops and give immi's a meager amount of chyen. It bums me out to see established characters still running them instead of pursuing more lucrative, rp-oriented opportunities frankly. Of course the opportunity for conflict and profit rewarded by stealing said crates is ultimately the gateway into some more CP action.

I think it's also important to note that if stores topside are understocked that corpies need to work through a fixer. In some capacities these are proper corporate jobs fulfilled by people along with the smattering of less "professional" requisition services which give back far more to the game than someone running crates.

Let's not reward people for using a crutch of the game.

Gotta agree with Reefer here, crates are but one of many ways to make money in the Dome. Branch out! Not sure how to branch? Ask someone! Better yet, pay someone!

Thought the issue was that shops are undersupplied, not that people can't make money?

I'm glad to see people threatening Red couriers, as it's a dangerous job, but wish there was more doing it to prevent the small-world RP.

I think it would be great to see more topside players incentivizing the crate running with their disposable income rather than hoarding said income. That is very themely.

I don't know, it's hard to debate that without venturing into IC event territory. IMO, the average corpie would say "Mixer scum already gets paid, their lev fees already get subsidized, why should I pay them more for doing easy work that any trash golem can and does do" etc.

But I get the point about not leaning on the crate jobs as a crutch, and definitely understand that larger aim. I just like the idea of encouraging more class mixture / conflict and hate seeing half empty stores. If we're going to rely on those crates to stock stores we need to make sure the crate influx is relatively healthy too, is all.

So if Topside stores start running out of items, the solution is "Better find a fixer?"? Word? These stores are not " Crutches". They are apart of the world. Part of the RP. And if they are not being stocked, something needs to be looked at.

I disagree wholeheartedly that "Doing nothing" is a solution because it "Might" generate RP. "Might."

You are assuming that what you are proposing is not already the case. Topside crates pay more than the Mix.

There are also numerous threads about crate running and folks should use the search at the top of the site to find and utilize existing topics as opposed to creating new ones where ever possible.

Ex:

https://www.sindome.org/bgbb/game-discussion/ideas/courier-work-890/

http://www.sindome.org/bgbb/game-discussion/new-game-features/hazard-pay-118/

https://www.sindome.org/bgbb/open-discussion/anything-really/deliver-the-crate-to-shack-in-junkyard-799/

-- S

I'm not sure that paying more Chy is the best incentive to get people doing this- maybe a few actual salaried positions with WWW for those who are trying to make the transition but are waiting for a job interview or that door to open to a corp job?

As for the suggestions earlier in the thread: I would agree for the most part, with one major exception. I don't mind contacting a corp req. agent, or a fixer for some things, but contacting them to buy consumables and other high-use, high-demand low-value seems rather unthemely on both fronts. Going to a back-alley shady arms dealer to buy mascara is silly, and so is ordering it through your corporate sourcing agent. At least in my opinion. And I'd agree that it's nice that we have some people driving RP to try and resolve these issues ICly, but those solutions can seem a little forced as well.

I frequently get common inexpensive things I could easily find myself from other players because it gives people something to do and creates RP.

Most "high-use, high-demand low-value" items are generally auto-stocked in a fashion similar to that seen at Lucky Dragon. If make-up items are the most notably impacted I agree that maybe it should be considered to make them autostocked, however, in some instances I've known these to be player-owned shops which would be a very good reason not to do that.

I'm kind of on the fence about this one, On the one hand, the scarcity of certain high demand, expensive items that would normally be carried in shops does create opportunities to get creative, generate RP, and make some money off of the situation. But on the other hand it can be very irritating trying to get more mundane things from shops that shouldn't really be scarce. Thankfully that doesn't happen very often.

Personally I think if the commuter pass was extended to be around an hour to a few hours, that would make it pretty worth it. And if it didn't bug out randomly too. I've had a couple times where minutes after picking up a crate it already expired. I don't think that was intentional either.

Maybe increasing the number of crates that can be run a day to five to match ACME's crate running would help, then at least for people who do find crate running to be worth their time, they can run more crates and restock the shops better. Otherwise maybe a weekly Lev pass for sale at the WJF would work too? Sort of like a real life bus pass or subway pass.

There's plenty of incentives that're being created organically IC by topside characters to try and help alleviate this whole, "It's not worth running crates topside!" issue that's generating roleplay of some kind for involved parties.

But they aren't actually very themely and are basically 'small world' solutions to a game mechanic problem. In a 'real Withmore', real corpies would just take their business elsewhere, to stores that pay couriers well enough to keep themselves stocked with things like makeup and umbrellas -- if I'm a corpie, I'm supposed to go through some manner of topside fixer or an umbrella? Uhh.

I say small world solutions because we have to pretend like we don't only have 1-2 stores on Green selling certain products that aren't getting stocked, so people are kinda meta-ing around the problem because they don't know what else to do, not necessarily because it's what they think their chars would IC'ly be doing.

Some would, some wouldn't, I can't speak for everyone of course. But I have a hard time believing most corpies are happy throwing their chyen at mixer scum they probably (by and large) already feel are overpaid for what they perceive as dumb grunt work that already makes most corpies uncomfortable, because most corpies don't want mixer scum anywhere near their Green sector stores to begin with. What, now they're paying money out of their own pockets to bring MORE scum up MORE often? Yeah, okay.

Well, it seems that the main concern here is that stores are lacking stock and that this feels unrealistic and immersive breaking to some. That maybe the people running those shops wouldn't be happy about that. I can see that but perhaps it's just that I and others lack the proper perspective?

On the other hand, however, I am fascinated by the idea of Mr. Bruce having tiers of employees maybe. Low level employees would be just like today. No different. However, if you meet Mr. Bruce's standards when you ask for a crate, you might qualify for a higher pay. Maybe a flat fee from him that get's added to your tab upon success full delivery. Then, when you are ready, you can go to him and 'collect' your pay from him.

Possible Criteria:

- Not dirty - not even a little dusty.

- Must have a scent (From the sanitation booths or a purchased scent)

- Must not be wearing any immy clothing

- Clothing must not be damaged, patched or stained.

- Minimum Charisma level

- Not have been in Red recently

To be honest I would really prefer it if, after a characters first two weeks, Mr. Bruce would only hire characters that met said standards. It makes sense for him to run a classier operation than his red sector counterpart. But that would reduce the number of potential couriers even further.

I think that's a complex answer to a simple problem. Mixers are not delivering crates topside. Why? The Answer is simple - It's not worth it. It's an investment in time, due to waiting for the Lev, when they could be doing something else. It's an investment in money, because there are times when you don't deliver quick enough, and your paying for the Lev back down again.

It's free market at it's finest. People are not going to do something if it ain't worth doing. And I doubt staff are going to go for a complex solution to an issue if they can do it in a simpler way. My idea? Extend the time that Crate deliveries get free Lev fare. That might help. In addition, I've heard time and again that Topside crate deliveries pay more. That has rarely been my experience. All together? Each crate might be "Worth" more, but if your only delivering three, it seems to end up balancing out to being the same amount t you get delivering five on Red.

This of course has just been my experience.

Also it usually takes a hell of a lot more time to deliver 3 crates topside than 5 in red.

I think the time it takes to do this task properly reflects the inconvenience and social status of the Mixer ICly.

Corpies don't do this because they're above it. We're not going to do anything to lessen the impact of the social divide without very careful consideration.

I wonder if there could be a full time delivery job involving the delivery vans I sometimes see around Withmore? Could be a good way to create new jobs and stock shops much better.

"I think the time it takes to do this task properly reflects the inconvenience and social status of the Mixer ICly. " - I mean, that's all well and good...but, I suspect it's Corpies complaining about not having the things they want. I suppose there are plenty of ways Topsiders can RP this lack of stock of various thing they are used to. Perhaps a more "Natural" look can be a fad. Perhaps they can get biomods, and have makeup permanently applied to their flesh.

All I know is, in all likelihood, doing nothing about an issue will result in...well, nothing changing. If mixers don't wanna run crates, Corpies gotta figure out how to adapt, one way or the other.