Incentivizing Mix performers

I don't disagree at all with the amount of effort, energy and time put into creating performances and artistic pieces. But PCs should be the ones who tip during those beyond the already coded ambient support. If PCs aren't tipping enough, it sounds like something to work out ICly through a number of different avenues.

I would really like to see performers be given an ability like the original "Charismatic Leadership" ability from CP2020 (detailed at the end of this post in italics).

The idea of being able to incite crowds is pretty cool. The way the rule is written in CP2020 is too over the top powerful for a game like Sindome.

The mechanic itself is an intriguing idea.

There are already some systems in place that are trending in this direction.

Attending a live performance can be an exhilarating experience. For players and characters who have not been to an invent in the last 6 - 12 months, you are missing out.

There are coded systems in place that can be leveraged to create more impact from a performance. For example, the "Troublemakers" code is perfect. Imagine if a performance spawned a troublemaker, or three, or a dozen.

Consider taking that to the next level. The troublemaker is spawned with an objective. As a single NPC token they probably can't achieve it and will likely be thwarted. What if characters run interference and keep the troublemaker alive long enough to complete the task?

The obvious use for this idea is for Mixers to incite the oppressed masses to riot and wreck havoc. What if it also works the other way? What if some corpos fund a benefit concert for the "Withmore Depopulation Society" and that results in troublemakers spawning in the Mix and randomly attacking people? What if their mission is to firebomb a popular bar?

I really encourage players who feel like the "performer" role does not have enough oomph to it, to go and read some of the original source material for inspiration. At the risk of spelling it out, come up with a purpose behind the performances. A message behind the music.

Charismatic Leadership Ability - CP2020 Rules[/b]

Charismatic Leadership (Rockers):

This skill allows the Rocker to sway crowds equal to their level squared times 200. This ability (added to your Cool stat) allows the Rockerboy to control, incite and charm large

number of people through their performance skills.

When under the Rocker's control, this group can easily be persuaded to act on their suggestions; for example, a Rocker could convince a concert crowd to riot in the streets or attack a heavily fortified police line.

Charismatic Leadership will only work with groups of ten or more people as it is primarily a mob leadership ability. The higher your Charismatic Leadership, the

larger a crowd you can control and the more direct and complex the instructions

you can get them to follow.

For example, a Level +3 Leadership could incite a nightclub crowd to get rowdy. A Level+5or+6could provoke a concert crowd of thousands to trash a neighborhood, if the area wasn't too far from the hall. At Level +9, and higher, you have the same sort of mesmeric ability as an Adolph Hitler-you can raise armies, start movements, and destroy nations.

Character Description / Synopsis

Rockerboys are rebellious musicians who use music and revolt to fight authority. They are a lot like '80s punk rockers who look down on corporate "sellouts" as the traitors to the craft. Because they are so charismatic, they can sway, incite and charm a large number of people through musical performances.

This synopsis seems to encapsulate one of the key elements of this discussion. Specifically all (the majority?) of the perceived "benefits" of being a performer are reserved for corporate sellouts who go topside and end up with loads of chyen.

What is missing are the "benefits" (the street cred / reputation) of performers who decide to remain in the Mix and "among the masses".

Five or ten PCs in a club? I've seen people walk out with less than five hundred flash in tips. Even well liked performers. Days or weeks of effort to make less flash than sitting at the PRI line? I've been told before to consider ambpops in a public indoor space for every one PC.

Ox1mm confirmed the existence of funds topside to pay for things like this (unless I misunderstand). This idea is the same thing except coming from a thematically legitimate source for the mix. I don't really see where the issue is.

Imagine I said we should remove crate running from the game because, "We should ICly make players pay more to runners." That's what the argument "Players should tip more" sounds like to me.

But yeah, we constantly talk about ambpop consideration. So where's the ambpop here?

We (our characters) ARE the crowd. We can choose to respond to performances.

Performer does a song about burning down the corporations? We can go out and act on that. Even if it's just hopping on a burner SIC alias and spewing some random anti-corporate propaganda.

Performer does a song about unity and peace in the Mix? We can amplify that sentiment.

The new performing code / stage code does a good job of emoting ambpop that we can react to.

In my own personal experience, my character was at a show being done by a character that my character didn't really like because of various IC reasons. None the less, I decided to play along with the emotes being generated by the performance. I allowed my character to be swayed by the performance. I decided to have my character go forward with a more positive / less negative view of the performer.

One of the things I have come to love about this game is the fact that one character can only get ahead by taking from another character.

Creating automated payouts based on skills is way too PVEish for my liking.

I even dislike my own proposal about manipulating crowds and spawning troublemakers because of how it is essentially a PVP mechanic.

If performers can spawn a troublemaker with a good performance, should a solo be able to intimidate an ambpop token into causing trouble? A chef able to bribe someone with food? A decker able to blackmail some random ambpop by threatening their make believe Bank account if they don't go throw a molotov at the maglev gates?

Where does it end?

I think it's important to always consider other archetypes when suggesting things like this. It's easy to champion an idea that benefits us personally, or that is intended to bring about more of what we want to see in the game. And that's fine.

Using performance as an example, consider the other side of the coin.

If I'm asking for an automated way for performers to make money because I want more performers, how are we (the community) going to provide a similar automated money making system for every other "under represented" skill / archetype that we want to see more of?

At the end of the day, it all seems to come down to do more crime to survive.

I'm not making enough playing my guitar, so I had to mug someone for rent.

Nobody had a car for me to work on this week, so I had to steal a crate from some immigrant.

Nobody needed a television installed, so I had to sneak into someones apartment. I think. I dunno. I woke up in the vats and that's what pubsic said I did.

Etc

Being as vague as I can it exists for performers who are employed on the business terminal of the relevant business. I don't believe just any performer gains access to it.

Full disclosure: I'm pretty sour grapes about the performer experience, overall.

I'll share the anecdote I put in OOC here for everyone. I once played a gig that was booked weeks in advance, and had some 20+ players in attendance, so a really solid crowd. Lots of hype, lots of encouragement to save up and tip well. I spent about 20 hours OOCly writing the set list of original content for the show. I walked away after performing half a dozen songs with barely over a K as total take home.

Literally. Soul crushing.

Somewhat frustratingly, players also start to grumble if a song is played more than 3-5 times across a number of shows shows as well. 'Where's the new shit!? We already heard this twice! Boo, hiss!' Troublesome, given the time it takes to conceive and write a song to completion. Stylistically, as a performer you're also presented with the decision to either play your song at a somewhat reasonable pace and have it played out at what amounts to half tempo, which keeps the lyrics and poses coming at a good pace, or you really milk out the pauses and try and work the crowd with poses between dropping bars. In both cases, it's actual work to perform behind the keyboard.

Here's a few thoughts I thought I'd post after reading the thread.

The people who tip well are almost always artists themselves or former artist players, because they recognize what a labor of love it is. Think of it this way: a person pay five, ten, fifteen kay on an article of clothing that takes half the OOC effort of buying equipment, producing a song, promoting your show, playing the event, and working the crowd.

Some of the payouts at larger events are good.

Some of them are like getting slapped in the face.

As a performer you want to rip your hair out when people ask you to perform with zero booking fees. 'Yes, I would love to break my ass making content for you on the vague hope that maybe I make a couple K in tips.'

Unfortunately for both crowd and performer, there's no good way to tell how things are looking. (assuming people aren't inspecting everything here) People see one pile of flash and it's 4K and think that the performer isn't making anything. Inversely, there might be 25 piles of 50c and people think .o0(I'll just tip a bit because there's a lot of flash in the guitar case already.)

Perhaps this would be easier to visualize if there was a tip jar object in clubs where you could look at the jar and get a rough idea of what others had contributed without having to look through 15 piles of flash.

Have lots of patience when it comes to demanding fresh content. If someone's a one-song chump and that's all they've done for weeks or months, sure, chuck some stale popcorn if you want.

Paying performers shouldn't fall entirely on the club owner, IMHO. Operational costs of clubs are already high if you have a few employees who are getting a halfway decent paycheck weekly. There is a clear advantage to working for a NPC owned club, which I don't think should be the case.

TL;DR Literally give

But anyways, I mean, I suppose I personally have a dog in the race that content-creating characters like performers getting paid more would benefit me, but I just honestly feel like the right balance can be difficult to strike. I can't see how you would thread the needle between making performing feel less like throwing away energy, while also not making it so that basically volunteer writers are entitled to gain IC benefits in Sindome because they did volunteer work outside of the time for Withmore Hope Inc.

I feel like every time this game tried to inject more money into the economy via automated methods rather than human intervention by staff, it leads to a disaster of some kind.

I think you are onto something with radios. I think there is something there with being able to lock them open. Based on my limited knowledge of radios, I believe that there are IC opportunities there.

Things like more powerful transmitters being able to transmit for longer. Or the ability to tweak / overclock existing transmitters. Maybe even true radio wars based on signal strength, or some other mechanism that allows pirates to broadcast over official NLM channels. And with that, the corresponding need for NLM to stay on top of their game to keep control of their own airwaves.

If you are hoping to make bank doing performances in Red, without selling out I think not only is it an unrealistic expectation, it is also, I personally think unthemely. I think of Mixer performers, performing in the mix as akin to buskers who got lucky on an open mic night. A tiny tiny tiny per cent of fantastically talented musicians actually make any money at all out of their craft, in a place like the Mix that should be doubly so.

I understand from an OOC perspective a lot of work goes into these things, I have spent hundreds maybe even thousands of ours since starting sindome writing creative content that earned nothing, and most likely will never be seen. IT SUCKS, but I still do it because I love doing it. If you do not enjoy writing these things out, you do not have to do, your characters skills can be applied elsewhere or even to these other creative skills and earn, while music is a passion.

I really do not want to be 'suck it up' but being a chy rich performer in Sindome, you have to sell out and sell your soul. BUT that does not mean you cannot be a rich performer, adoration, RP, that feeling of characters appreciating your work. That can mean as much as seeing a chy number increase.

It can be about the journey and RP, that can be payment :)

Think about it . . .most of the musicians in the mix right now have been there less than three or four months. If we follow the amb-pop rule of 1 to 100. For every one musician you have another 100 axe grinders out there trying to make it big in Red. How do you expect a city of 90 million people to see you as something special in 3-4 months or even less?

1. You aren't that special, yet. 2. Your coded skills aren't that great, yet. This is a big one I think. You can't just ignore SPECIALS because you put in a lot of work behind the scenes. It takes in-game time to build appeal and skills 3. Maybe get noticed in some way other than playing that brings inspiration to the music and the audience?

These are just some observations for the sake of playing devil's advocate, but I still think there are lots of better IC ways people can secure chyen through performances than using coded support. It would be great if people just tipped, like beandip said. Stingy bakas. Grow a pair will ya?

Reusing Performances / Extending the Lifespan of Creative Content

A significant amount of effort goes into creating a performance. I have never seen a single song performed that did not also include emotes, poses, etc. In fact, I personally, OOCly have never left a performance and thought anything less than "Wow, that took a lot of work and creativity. Hats off to that person (player). I certainly don't have the creative vision or willingness to dedicate that much time into producing that kind of content."

@TalonCzar's comment comparing the economic disparity between paying a creative player tens of thousands of chyen for clothing, versus paying a creative player a few hundred chyen for a live performance got me thinking.

At first glance, the clothing is "obviously" more valuable because it is durable. A single performance is just that. It happens in real time and it's over. Unfortunately the scarcity of the event does not drive up it's value. (It's kind of ironic that performers are short changed by a theme that places so much emphasis on possessions for status. That's a philosophical discussion for later.)

Touring and Cultivating a Fan Base

That got me to thinking that performers should plan to tour whenever they put out a new song. I was reminded of fans who follow a band on tour, even if it is just for a few stops in cities close to their own. They aren't following the band because of the song. They can listen to the song on their personal devices any time they want. They are following the band because live shows are an experience.

I think (total conjecture here) that performers might be suffering some collateral damage to the "club conflict". When I started nearly four years ago, the club conflict was pretty visceral. Firebombings. Social shaming / clique type behaviors around who went to which club. etc. That type of conflict has been significantly toned down, and I do see performers doing their routines in multiple clubs more so than in the past.

I feel like the game community would be enhanced overall if EVERY club supported a performer and booked them when they put out new material. Of course there can be competition over where the song gets performed first. And performers should charge a premium for their debut show.

By hitting all of the clubs, not only will performers have more opportunities to earn chyen, and more opportunities to get more mileage out of their content, but they will also enable the creation of a fan base. As much as possible, they can try to find different time slots to give more of the player base opportunities. Maybe a player usually only logs on after work US time during the weeks. But then they could do a morning show, or late night show to align with "day time" in other parts of the world.

The fan base is also an opportunity for roleplay. Traditionally, KMB has been the "ultimate destination" for performers to perform at. Imagine the fun to be had when a performer with a small army of shabby Mixers brings that fanbase to the KMB. How does NLM walk the tightrope between wanting to be associated with the hottest up and coming performer, while distancing the performer from the very fans that enabled their rise to the top? Let the Mixers in and hope they don't trash the place? Lock the Mixers out and hope they don't riot on New Light Avenue?

Keep in mind that performances are RP opportunities for EVERYONE. If you can't find ways to use a big group of people to Do Crime in, maybe seek out a mentor? Watch a couple videos about agitators leveraging otherwise peaceful protestors as a starting point.

Open Source Creative Content

A few months (years?) ago, there was a great effort to open source the creation of emotes for drugs. It was successful and allowed people to contribute to the game at their leisure.

A couple of people have discussed how the pressure / expectation to continue creating content month after month, year after year as a "performer" or artist burns them out.

It seems like there might be an opportunity to allow creative people to contribute creative content without needing to be performers.

This is NOT a suggestion meant to address the lack of compensation for performers.

This IS a suggestion to generate a slow flow of new content into the game.

What if there was a system like the one that was used for drugs, or other script development, that was used for creative content?

I am thinking about things like two or three emote holo-ads in the subways. Emotes from the ever present blimps and televisions.

Obviously, NLM characters are "supposed to" be the main source of that. And I'm by no means suggesting taking food off of their plates.

But why not tap into people, players, who are feeling creative?

It might even be possible to blend the two. Create a player generated pool of creative content. Have NLM Senior management pick one or two of them a few times a year. Then assign those picks to Juniors for further refinement or enhancement?

I know it's my own idea, but now that I think about it, I really like this last one. It eases the burden of full time creative characters. (I don't know about the rest of you, but the biggest challenge for me is "getting started". Once I get started and have the basic idea, the rest of the creative process flows fairly freely from there.) It also gives performers a light at the end of the tunnel. While they are starting, they have to create their own content. But they know, if they "make it", they'll have support of huge megacorp with a steady stream of ideas for them to build off of / rip off / rebrand as their own.

How come you're such a cheap skate?! =P

You bring up a good point though.

Looking at this through the PVP lense, performing and live events are kind of gladitoral.

Characters have proven that they will pay for content that they want to see. (UMC)

It would be interesting to run an experiment with club owners increasing the door fee.

Then door fee + bouncer fee.

Then door fee - bouncer fee + tips.

That experiment right there is a roleplay rich idea that various club owners, performers and managers could implement right now.

NLM can help performers stretch content by recording their performances (at KMB). Or inviting them in studio to perform. Or even getting out ahead of their popularity and reporting on them "Live from the Mix." Come on. Who doesn't want to see an eyePod in Carnal's? Or a posh, star reporter in the Drome?

What could possibly go wrong?

Or veteran performers who have made it can collaborate with with up and comers. Again, this is a way to stretch content. Let the mid-tier performer sing a few lines of a Milana song alongside the starlet herself. Or flip the script and maybe Milana does a remix of the mid-tier song, adding a new verse.

Looking at RL, one of the only reasons that performance art sustains itself is because of the community of performers. Artists show up for other artists. They drag their friends, and partners, and random strangers along with them to shows and events that those non-artists would never go to on their own.

I think that's something to be considered. Conceptualizing a piece of music, writing it in a presentable, likeable manner, writing the scripts for it, repeatedly practicing it in the performance system to get every error out - meaning deleting the entire script and creating it again from scratch in the system. Marketing the show, building interest, managing your own biz with clubs...

I'll say first of all, that twenty four hours to create a whole song is god damn fast imo. Put all of that other stuff together though, and you're playing the part of artist, manager, marketer at the very least. Trying to rp those separately (as I also have) doesn't work of course, because the payout is already so small, it's not possible to split between even one more person.

We're talking days of work for some that don't have time to commit to other rp. We can't all spend ten hours a day online or whatever, so that nothing sum could be all that's earned - and it likely won't even pay for rent from what's been offered, in my experience.

Buuuut...I'm a musician irl and that's exactly what it's like. My last band's high point before covid had us booked twice at Busch Stadium, which netted us a total of two grand for the year. Even as a well known and popular St. Louis band that had show offers almost bi-weekly, we'd be lucky to afford gas money home after a month or two of hustling tickets between job shifts. No shit, sometimes I literally stood in popular weekend spots hustling tickets like a scalper on the street. Cause the venue won't do shit for you except provide the space and take seventy percent of your sales in thanks for your effort.

Still, this is a game. And while it's supposed to be bleak and crappy and the epitome of destitution in the mix, maybe the consideration should be less about "you're making what you should make in the mix", and more about "musicians are a great catalyst for large group rp, and an enjoyable social event for players. how do we keep music minded players from quitting on account of it simply not being worth their irl time?"

Consider that while I suggest some IC options.

Musicians:

1. Don't play a gig if there isn't an agreement to raise the door fee. You're a business entity and you're entering into a contract. You don't have to just fold to the venue's terms (doesn't work irl btw).

2. Request a percentage of bar sales (some places will do this irl, but mostly it's for cover bands. they tend to have larger draw than local new music).

3. Request a combination of these things in addition to a small flat fee from the club itself.

4. If all else fails, refuse to play there. Bring the biz to someone who values you. Or be an enterprising baka and find ways to make flash at it without the clubs.

5. There are probably ways to earn flash playing in the streets if you think about it for a bit. I have a few thoughts in mind, but I'm keeping them to myself OOC.

Clubs:

1. Raise the door fee

2. Raise drink prices

3. Do both even and make a single drink purchase mandatory for each patron

4. RP ticket sales and make a list of people who paid for the show in advance

4a. Now you have income whether the PC shows up or not.

4b. Charge less for tickets and more for paying at doors

All of 4 is irl drek

5. Don't be surprised when club x makes bank next Saturday because you were too cheap to payout what the music is worth

I would like to say: Let's limit the performance is so hard and every other artist/journalist/ tailor is weaksauce and has it easy talk. That isn't productive.