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No NPC Judges on Gold
More gameplay for Judges, CorpSec and Criminals

Drastic solutions to stagnation.

Remove (or dramatically reduce) NPC Judges from Gold, leaving only CorpSec and PC Judges to protect PCs and assets on Gold. No more xhelping required for crime since there is no NPC response to prepare. NPC presence (and xhelp requirements) remain on Green and Blue as normal.

CorpSec will be needed to actually protect Corporate Citizens in the Sector at large, PC Judges will have far more active enforcement to partake in. More room for being underhanded in the dagger sense of 'cloak and dagger' topside.

This whole notion operates on the assumption that there is 'stagnation' topside. It's just a different playstyle, guys. You either can or can't.
I'd like some points of views as to why the solution is to erase NPCs rather than encourage people to create issues on Gold through the current methods.
People do crimes on Gold all the time. The presence of Judges has little to do with the amount of activity there.

The biggest barrier to crime topside is that it's hard to reliably find any corporate players anywhere to victimize, since the nature of topside means they'll rarely be out on the street. That's probably fine since they're supposed to be safer than Mixers anyway.

Yeaaah, just sounds like more of a reason for people to pull shit topside when they know nobody will be able to respond.
People do crimes on Gold all the time. The presence of Judges has little to do with the amount of activity there.

Doubt.

Though I am curious to see if this is true. Perhaps all WJF could be switched off for a week on Gold via an event to see if there would really be no additional activity without panopticon iron-clad law enforcement.

Just because you don't participate in it or know about it doesn't mean it's not happening.
So you're suggesting completely removing what is an IC reality - heavy security on topside sectors - for some experiment on whether or not people will abuse the system? This is all terribly meta, mate.
I didn't claim otherwise, you said the presence of Judges had no effect on activity, which I doubt is true. That there is activity now does not preclude that WJF presence limits activity, or that there would be more without it.
Maybe just slightly less NPC Judges on Gold, and shift them to Green? I like the spirit of this idea, giving PC Judges more chances to patrol and all that seems like a great idea. Gold does feel pretty locked down when you run around up there.
WJF only limits activity if players are afraid to have their characters take risk because they the players know they must xhelp and that there'll be some kind of response.

Again, I ask - I'd like some points of views about why this is the issue and instead we aren't encouraging more players to commit crimes and create activity?

I think this would be fun to try out because one, there's basically no interaction between mixers and corpies as it stands, beyond SIC insults which are meaningless (so much so that most of the time, it more sounds like buddies joking together than actual vitriol, which is extremely un-themely.)

Two, anything that lightens admin load is a big plus. Gives them more time to just play the game, work on it, or, god forbid, relax.

Three, it gives corpsec members more to do. Remember businesses and corps have their own security, it's not like removing the hordes of judges everywhere on gold will suddenly mean there'll be shootouts and stabbings there on the daily.

If anything, I doubt we'd see a huge change in crime activity, since topside is almost impossible to do crime in not just because of patrols. I always thought it was weird that there was basically no real difference between Green and Gold, anyway.

I think the divide barely exists anymore and that's bad, since it's literally the central component of cyberpunk. Let mixers raise a little hell. Let corpies get more opportunities to spit on them. I think there's been enough feedback from corp players to justify at least some changes.

It -should- feel locked down because it is. Did no one notice the massive tower protecting corporate interests in the middle of the sector?
Sly, you're just way off the mark.

Again - just because you don't see it happening doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Don't let your misguided notions on how things are determine these ideas, maybe look at the world around you instead.

Again, the crimes are happening, and so's the cross-sector interaction. Just because you aren't privy to it doesn't mean it isn't there.

Gold is not exactly supposed to be laden with petty thugs and pickpockets, and those aren't supposed to be daily concerns for corporate citizens, they're the terrifying exception.

Gold, Green and Blue aren't sandboxes where you can commit crime willy-nilly and consider that a good thing. Topside is not the Mix.
So you're suggesting completely removing what is an IC reality - heavy security on topside sectors - for some experiment on whether or not people will abuse the system? This is all terribly meta, mate.

The WJF has pulled a substantial majority of it's forces out of Gold Sector today due to fortification of Green and Blue Sectors after a rash of terrorist attacks. Although the move has been met with an outcry from, it is believe the Hall folded to pressure from powerful lobbying groups of elite Corporate citizens resident in those Sectors...

Not only is that an implausible IC situation, but it also still has a praxis that is meta. 'Hey let's just delete all the NPCs and let people run wild'. Yeah ok, Withmore is an anarchy top to bottom, totally the world the devs built.
"It is believe the Hall folded to pressure from powerful lobbying groups of elite Corporate citizens resident in those Sectors"

So pull up protection of the actual corporate HQs, to protect residential districts?

Doesn't sound like the things a very corporate thing to do...

Anarchy always prevails!
Please no more joke threads in Ideas, 0x1.

Thanks.

Oh relax HC, I'm keeping a light tone because everyone is always so threatened by Ideas threads.

I don't have the power to overturn your virtual life, but it's fun to discuss these ideas and I think it's taken for granted that there is a super powerful law enforcement which is (in my opinion) not especially CP and devalues CorpSec. I get the impression it is modelled on Judge Dredd but from what I can tell from reading about that those Judges are spread super thin in megacities. So individually they're unstoppable but they don't have unlimited coverage. Withmore sort of has both. I like the idea of CorpSec everywhere, I think more CorpSec on streets like how gangs operate could be an interesting alternative on Gold.

I'm not wild about the idea, and there are a couple of reasons why.

Thematically, I don't see the difficulty of committing crime on Gold as a problem; it is meant to be heavily policed, just like the other topside districts. If you see NPC Judges there, it's because there was a deliberate decision to convey the sense that Gold is one of the most heavily monitored and patrolled parts of the city.

As far as game balance goes, we do want Mixers to be able to start drama! But we already see it happening topside. We've had situations where people are stuck in Genetek after cloning, we've had break-ins into Green apartments, and big scenes in corporate lobbies / cafeterias. The main reason we don't see it more has nothing to do with Judge presence; it's just a lower-traffic area, and there are plenty of ways we could go about changing that.

People aren't threatened by the idea.

People are asking you to explain why this should be something implemented besides what seems a fairly obvious meta of 'Crimes would go up.. if players knew their wouldn't be a potential automatic reaction.'

Which, again, for a third time I ask why we aren't encouraging people who commit crimes to ignore that meta, create more crime topside (outside those who already do) rather than completely wipe out a system.

For the record, that's an overall meta of that idea, not specifically directed at you, 0x1.
Hey, here's three words to end this whole argument:

"The Long Walk"

My justification is I don't think NPCs should ever be the primary interaction where there are players to fill those roles. I'd argue the NPC portion of the WJF forms the bulk of active law enforcement topside.

I believe CorpSec and WJF make up the majority of active topside players, I don't think finessing the IC reality to make their jobs involve more active protection/policing/interaction is beyond the Pale to simply suggest as a point of discussion.

Then your argument is way off the mark.

Just because you don't see it. Does not mean it does not happen.

If you went to know more, paydata. Seriously, plenty of IC ways to find these things out. And commit crime topside.

I never made any claims about crime not happening topside, it wasn't even part of my thesis. I think CorpSec should be emphasized for security over WJF, though not at the expense of PC Judges. I think it's more themely and also provides more gameplay to a larger number of players. I don't think there's any part of that can be dismissed by 'you're not seeing it' unless you're suggesting that most crime is already being handled by CorpSec topside.
CorpSec are as much security guards as Judges are police.
I think overall, a lot of players are really scared of doing crime in general (actual crime, not dipping a progia) and that's a much bigger can of worms. But without citing what has and hasn't been happening, and we can't, because it's IC, this thread is quickly becoming 'he said, she said' and it's going nowhere.

To answer your question, Crashdown, because even an extremely stupid character would know that crime on Gold is a death sentence unless you're extremely well-connected/resourced. Which then means only the extremely well-connected/resourced attempt it, which then means topside has little interaction with the literal majority of the playerbase who play mixers. And that's no bueno, but apparently, you like it that way, so again, opinions. We're back to 'it's happening' and 'no, it's not.'.

For clarification, I'm talking about real crime, not mugging someone. Heists, lifting cars, kidnapping, etc. It has nothing to do with meta, in the same way that not punching a that ganger who called you a dumbass baka when you came through the gates is not meta. It's common sense for even the most lacking in common sense.

0x1mm -- the argument that player Judges and CorpSec should have more to do on Gold is very valid, and we should definitely try to get them involved whenever they're available to respond to crime in the sector. In some memorable cases recently, they already have - they were involved in breaking up dangerous situations and keeping the streets calm.

On the other hand, when neither Judges nor CorpSec are around, Gold still comes off like a heavily-policed area. In contrast to Red, where the absence of TERRA (and responsible gangers) might mean total anarchy, Gold doesn't feel that way. If you're going to do crime there while law-enforcing players are offline, you'll need to be incredibly careful about it, and I think that's intended.

I recommend playing CorpSec or WJF sometime to see how busy it can be.
All I can write to you Sly is your assumption on the second and third paragraphs are incorrect and I highly encourage you to have your character ask around IC what crime gets what punishment.
On the other hand, when neither Judges nor CorpSec are around, Gold still comes off like a heavily-policed area. In contrast to Red, where the absence of TERRA (and responsible gangers) might mean total anarchy, Gold doesn't feel that way.

It's absolutely intended! I definitely acknowledge that. This is why there are Judges everywhere. It is secure. I am not suggesting that it's overly secure from a gameplay standpoint compared to the room descriptions, I just think the IC reality of that security can change as easy as gameplay changes can be made. How the WJF works and where they work has changed in the past as far as I am aware, though I wasn't around for that.

@1mm

'I'd argue that the bulk of law enforcement is done by NPCs'

Wrong.

@Sly

Isn't this what people argue against? 'It's not about destinatiin, it's about the journey'? Nobody should be afraid to fail. And on top of that - what makes you think anybody BUT the most well-resourced should be able to pull off these things in what are ICly militarized sectors? This too is common sense, friendo

If a minority of law enforcement is being handled by NPCs, then what would be the drastic change in reducing them further? The appearance is you are arguing both sides of the coin, that NPC enforcement is both mandatory and unnecessary because PCs handle it already.

Are you saying that PCs topside are already at their max workload and any additional IC demands would be too much? If that were true I would certainly think that would be a strong argument against.

@Baron

Without wading in too deeply here, I'd offer that I think 0x would probably consider (not speaking for them) that passive Panopticon State of the NPC Judge Net and the reality it offers from a gameplay perspective (not just an IC one) to absolutely be part of that 'law enforcement' being done. e.g., all the crime that never gets committed because of the NPC judges simply existing, 24/7, being enforcement, no just fines for lewdness or NPC judges getting puppeted to deal with whatever.

Also to be clear where GMs are delegating law enforcement responses to PC, I am considering that 'NPC law enforcement' since the actual 'visual' of the crime and the reporting is performed ICly by NPCs who are delegating to PCs for the showy bits.

I would find it hard to believe that PCs are the ones responding, under their own devices and abilities, to crimes topside -- but if that were true then I would also suggest NPCs are not really necessary.

@crashdown

That is beside the point. Clone death, a fine, whatever it is, nobody is going to commit a crime if they KNOW, not think, that they're gonna get caught.

Unless they have brain damage, but we don't enough brain damaged characters around for that.

@Baron

I wholeheartedly agree, people should expect and enjoy failing, on an OOC level. Failing on purpose, IC, is another thing entirely. And I do think only the best should get away with it clean. But I think we should incentivize trying, to create an environment where players IC feel like they have a chance, and that's currently not the case. That doesn't have to mean wiping out all of WJF on Gold. We're discussing options.

Why have Gold, Green and Blue if they're all equally impenetrable? Especially considering the corporate playerbase is significantly smaller than the mix playerbase?

@1mm

What you are arguing is from a stance of sheer meta. 'Delete NPC so everyone can do more stuff', you can do better than this. People already CAN do more stuff. And having a full workload and having NPCs to -represent the militarisation of topside sectors just for starters- are not mutually exclusive concepts.

@Sly

I sense a problem of perception. Are you saying topside shouldn't seem impentrable to a bunch of bedraggled trash golems?

Hey guys!

I love good discussions and I hope to see these continue in constructive ways without attacks, as this one is doing. Great job.

To the point, without drastically changing the world and lore (leaving Gold completely baron of all the Judges surrounding the Hall of Justice) we would never remove the NPCs. Gold is the most heavily Judge saturated zone. This is like saying remove the dogs from the park. The park is where the dogs are. Gold is where the Judges are.

As to PC Hall types, we have more as of late, but that number goes up and down drastically. Even with the higher number of Hall types we couldn't allow Gold to be PC response only. There need to be more people behind keyboards being all the Hall types and there simply aren't enough PCs for that.

@Baron

Theme-wise, yes. Game/story-wise, no. Would it be fun or a good story if every time a corporate citizen walked into Red, they got beaten, robbed and ditched on an alley dumpster? Because that's what the theme says should happen, but it shouldn't be an inevitability.

So why is it the case for most mixers wanting to commit crime topside? There has to be a balance between what is most realistic, and what is most fun/encourages stories.

@Dreamer

A bit off-topic, but don't you think, to use your example, it could create fun RP and gameplay if from time to time, a dog got past the gates? Things don't have to be completely static. And it shouldn't just fall on the admin's shoulders to make those special times happen. That's what this is, in my view.

My sort of ideal view of topside is one that the Corporations themselves are the primary security for their own people, but I didn't want to be like 'get rid of the WJF!' because I know there's a fair number of PC Judges these days and the Hall isn't going anywhere.

I think change can be good to consider, even if things have been a certain way for a long time.

Even as the home of the Hall I think there's room within the vision of Gold to think about alternate ways of integrating CorpSec into that (moreso) beyond their respective HQs, to not make Judges quite so omnipresent as respondents, and to allow the WJF to be all-seeing in a thematic sense but with more room for PCs on the CorpSec and criminal side to operate in a practical way.

To approach this from a thematic angle (which I am a bit loathe to do because I think fun gameplay should always trump what is 'realistic' in a made-up world): While I feel like the surveillance makes sense, the IC enforcement I think is implausible based on how the city is described, the demographics, and how the Corporations work. It would require tens of thousands street Judges and millions of support personnel to achieve the IC security of Gold, Green and Blue. Law enforcement in cities becomes increasingly difficult as populations swell, especially in a Corporatist dystopia that has at most a puppet government. All of that to effectively limit the abilities of the Corps to do whatever they want is, I think, somewhat at odds with the type of society Withmore is described as being.

Bottom line though is I don't want to be like 'you're not working enough'. If enforcement PCs topside are already stretched thin in their workloads, it's not for me to suggest they need more things to do.

@Sly,

Well then it is a perception problem, because while theme dictates that all corpies should be killed on sight by Mixers in the Mix - and that happens 98% of the time by by the way - there's still interplay in that area, without getting IC-meta about it. On the other side of the coin, we're on-theme with topside impenetrability, and yet nobody is stopping people from committing crimes topside game-wise. Nobody but the people who fear the repercussions, of course.

I'd say the Mix wins out in that regard, wouldn't you?

People don't want to come up and fail topside because it isn't fun. Most of the time you do just get corpsed. There's nothing compelling about waking up at GeneTek and getting a few SICs from a judge saying blah blah blah you were judged guilty of jaywalking and sentenced to clone death. I'd be more interested in that kind of crime if I felt like any of the WJF characters I've interacted with put in the effort to making it a memorable experience. Messing around and failing in Red is fun because so many of the players I've rumbled with exercise an extreme amount of restraint in just typing 'kill'.

As for the original suggestion, I'm not sure why anyone would want us to start allowing topside crime without xhelping. I don't -want- to do that kind of thing unless the ambient world can adequately react to it, and I don't think players and automated systems will ever be able to accomplish that. It doesn't sound fun.

Effort is a two way street. And that's the last I'll comment in this thread.
@1mm

Please don't argue in our steads. Only the player can determine what is fair and unfair for them. That being said I've already said all I want to say on this matter - I suggest looking deeper into theme ICly. You'll find most of your arguments are already true, enforced even - like Corpsec being responsible for their own security.

Gold is the sector where Corpies look over their shoulder as they go between their workplaces and the bank, it's where mixers look over their shoulder as they go to update, and it's where the WJF is most visibly present because of the natural clash that these two different demographics have with each other. The intention is that it is a place where both the risk and opportunity are higher. There are no Judges in the Mix but also robbing Mixers isn't all that profitable or easy, whereas corpies are squishy targets carring progia-11s and liteterms.

This all works quite nicely if you actually engage with it. WJF isn't omnipresent, but they are a factor. People have this perception that criminals always get caught and that it always makes it to pubSIC. Try for yourself and see!!

So what are some the negatives people feel that would result in loosening WJF control on Gold? Even if this is how it's always been (and how it always continues to be) I think there are some positives to consider that might be gained in other ways.

A positive as I've said is emphasizing corporate responsibility to protect their people on the streets, as well as making corporate citizens even more practical targets for mixers and rival corps alike.

One possible negative I can foresee is making the chilly atmosphere topside positively siege-mentality when it's not just getting in trouble with your own corp but also fearing tangible threats from others.

My take on this:

1. Having to xhelp before committing a crime on Gold makes me feel like I have to make an appointment to possibly shake things up. In a game where timing is often extremely important it can lead to failed jobs or missed opportunities. This will not change and there's nothing anyone can do about it. I don't like it, but it is what it is.

2. Tie in WJF response to corporate HQs with the new stock system. If a corp needs to ask the WJF to help them defend their own tower when they should have their own force for that then it makes them look weak. Immediate stock drop, less chy bonuses when they come around, if they even do.

3. I would like to say that a corpie being attacked even on the street should do the same as the above, but it might make them even more risk averse if they know they could be the reason their corp takes a hit. That said, it makes sense from a logical perspective.

4. Make it take far more to be banished from the city. Banishment is not fun for most and even if a banished character is in Red they have to play by a whole different set of rules. It should take more serious crimes to get to what is seen by a lot, rightfully so, as a point of no return.

In closing, it is supposed to be hard to mess around topside but it feels so easy to slip up and get caught for what is most of the time so little impact. You could murder a dozen corp employees and things would go back to normal within a day or two because it costs an impossible amount of chy to keep up sustained warfare topside. I feel like when the stock code is rolled out a lot of this will be solved.

Don't like getting involved or don't put up an adequate response to a threat? No bonus for you.

I've been witness to topside crime numerous times and it feels like everyone involved was having a blast.

I encourage folks to come to Gold more often.

I really connect with Vera's points.

Responding to 1mm-

"A positive as I've said is emphasizing corporate responsibility to protect their people on the streets"

There already is this in a very big way though. You'd be shocked how much maybe. If you feel it should be done better, that's an ic issue, one that would be exciting to explore.

"as well as making corporate citizens even more practical targets for mixers and rival corps alike."

There's a healthy level of fear that needs to be rped by topsiders. There is always the chance some dirty rat will come snag you and drag you down. It does and has happened. I hope anyone who plays like theyre invincible just because theyre Corporate gets dragged down a hole and disappeared. Maybe they --say- theyre invincible, but behind the scenes they should be making huge efforts to secure themselves.

Making connections keeps you safer. Relying on NPCs is risky. I don't know Bob the WJF guard. He doesn't give a shit about me. Maybe he'll respond to a poorly planned attack, but he's not going to champion me.

PCs are responding to threats and potential threats all the time. Quietly. Topsiders have lost. But maybe they're too concerned about their reputation to admit it and so it stays quiet.

There's just so many things to consider.

Fuck topside up. Plan a big thing with notes, I'm sure the admins would like to support that story. See what happens. It'll be fuuuun. But it should be hard and nearly impossible to pull off on a whim.

Tomorrow the PCs playing WJF get banned. Or they have kids. Or they get a full time job. Or they get drafted and deployed to Afghanistan. They just stop playing.

And Gold would suddenly have no Judges.

The wealthiest sector in the City, where all corporate assets are, barren of protection from their own military force they fund with millions of chyen.

Now you see why we can't rely on PCs only for ANYTHING?

Also:

Crimes topside happen all the time. People get permed. It happens. I've seen it happen. Just because you suck at it doesn't mean it's impossible because it's far from it.

I would find it hard to believe that PCs are the ones responding, under their own devices and abilities, to crimes topside -- but if that were true then I would also suggest NPCs are not really necessary.

Why would you find this hard to believe?

I think the answer to that question would fill in a lot of blanks here.

("Blanks" meaning unspoken gaps in your thesis, not meaning the intellect of the persons arguing against it YO!)

Now you see why we can't rely on PCs only for ANYTHING?

Also:

Crimes topside happen all the time. People get permed. It happens. I've seen it happen. Just because you suck at it doesn't mean it's impossible because it's far from it.

This.

Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it's not happening.

I think that, at most, we just need to reinforce the theme of Gold. I think Vera has worded it nicely. I see it as the place where mixers and corpies overlap most.

Mixers can visit many of the recreational and professional spots there (though there a few corpie only venues). Mixers have business they have to handle there - doing so on Red is just not an option. Corpies have to go there for their work in most cases and also for recreation and shopping and whatnot.

I feel that the streets of Gold should not feel super safe for corpies and they generally don't. Mixers should be worried about getting harassed and they sometimes do. A mixer with fines or bounties should feel super nervous as they are more actively sought.

Corpies on corporate property should feel safer and safer still on their own property. These places should make a mixer feel a bit more vulnerable. I feel this happens. With a few exceptions, the WJF's main concerns are the streets, public places and businesses that can't or don't field their own security force.

Gold is very busy so, while there are a lot of Judges, they are not going to show up instantly. If you take the time to plan your crime, you can get away with even fairly blatant crimes. If you plan poorly (commit a crime right by a Judge or other security) you will have a hard time.

I know people want there to be interactions between corpies and mixes. And, in my experience, there is. It's just not done openly and I think this is as it should be. Even if you extended the mix to include Gold you still wouldn't (and in my opinion shouldn't) see corpies and mixers colluding in public places.

So I urge mixers to be open to spending more time on Gold. To be less judgemental of other mixers who spend time in gold. I encourage Corpies to actually go to work in Gold and to engage in recreational activities and shop on Gold. Engage other corpies down there. Maybe band together for safety. If you are a bored corpie who wants to see some action, expose yourself on the streets of Gold - be a target.

I encourage WJF PCs and CorpSec PCs to think about creating interesting story when dealing with mixers on Gold. It's not like Green or Blue. Read the ambient room descriptions on Gold and compare them to Green for example.

To me the Red is a poor and destitute slum. Gold is like the down town portion of a large city with high crime rates. Parts are clean and golden examples of Corporate living and power. Patches are darker and frequented by mere shady individuals.

Being a mixer does not have to mean only ever being in Red. You can be a mixer and spend most of your time on Gold just fine. A lot of employees on Gold ARE mixers.

When so many mixers work and transit in Gold virtually all the time it sounds like it does more harm than good to have PC judges harassing mixers in Gold for simply walking through or standing somewhere for more than two minutes.

Green is a different story though...

Didn't read all the stuff yet but...

This measure would be too extreme and quite possibly against the current theme cannon, but its audible that a part of the player base is asking for more leeway regarding restricted RPing.

Having to plan too ahead, kind of kills off the buzz of an improvisational art such as roleplaying.

So having to get a puppet for crimes topside is a bit of a bummer, is tough to get a middle ground. But just as PC Judges are trusted to do stuff up there, so could certain PC criminals. And then you have people playing cops and robbers all proper like, almost.

We probably can come up with something.

That's a neat idea, ErgoProxy.
There's a lot of PC self-enforcement mix-side where players can get away with abusing things and farming but they (mostly) don't. I think the experienced player base can be trusted to not to spree kill Judges for gear, or mass-dip NPCs, in the same way that NPCs in Red are not constantly killed/farmed for all their drek.
I would like to see the NPCs on Gold move around more.

Either leverage whatever the token code is that has people moving around.

Or set some sort of timer that causes them to move after "reasonable amount of time".

If PC Judges are allowed to order NPC Judges around, the PCs would then be allowed to move them back.

As it currently stands, NPC Judges have been sitting immobile on some key access points between Gold and Red for WEEKS at this point. That seems imbalanced to me.

They move, Hek.

And if some aren't, sounds like a good chance for some RP, huh?

And if some aren't, sounds like a good chance for some RP, huh?

It would be if simply talking to a Judge as a Mixer wasn't inviting multi-thousand chyen fines. (Only a SLIGHT exaggeration.)

villa put it in terms I never could.

All this seems to me is people wanting to escape consequences for their actions. If you suck, you suck.

Taking risks is fun. I remember the first time I mugged someone. My heart was pounding through my chest and I got an adrenaline spike. Take more risks. Who cares if you lose some gear or a day of UE?
To start, I'm -well- aware there is a lot I as a player don't see going on, and that I don't have a problem taking risks topside. I also have no desire to see NPC law presence reduced.

What has put a complete halt to my topside crime attempts is the xhelp requirement. It's been mentioned before that it feels like setting an appointment, and that's true. For me, it's a flaw so severe that it's turned me off to going upstairs for crime rp at all. For one offs it isn't so bad - you can schedule and arrange, etc. Sustained crime is another matter entirely.

I for one, do not want to be the person to A. Set an appointment with an already busy staff and wait around hoping I get to play where and how I want before I'm out of time. B. Ask that staff to stick to me for extended sessions of petty crime rp against players.

As a player, I could spend literal days up there rping against players if I wasn't thinking about someone else's time constraints. I hate feeling like I'm hogging someone's time, and I also hate wasting my own - which is what it feels like when GMs are too busy to engage in topside crime requests. It feels like a lose-lose scenario, and it demotivates the entire experience for me.