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SIC triangulation tool skill check

Other security kit requires a skill check to use, I think this one should, too. Also, using it on dummy aliases should return dummy info instead of just not working.
One good reason would be to force people to rely on brainy tech types more instead of just letting the people with all the fighting skills do everything themselves.
The implied interface seems to be made purposedly simple, obviating a check. Plus considering it's cost...
Right but considering the potential power of the tool I think it's absolutely something that should require some investment into sectech or a buddy to help you. I'm very surprised to hear that it doesn't.
I've never used it, so maybe it has other limitations I'm not aware of, but this sounds reasonable and balancing to me.
There's a LOT of security gear in the game that requires 0 security tech skill to use because they have simple interfaces. It's like saying you need to know how to program to use a computer. Or how do microcircuits work to use a phone. Makes no sense.
And most of it isn't as useful or powerful as the triangulator. It wouldn't be crazy to ask for a skill check.
A computer's a piece of ubiquitous tech that you DO need skills to operate beyond simple Grid browsing. As for the phone analogy, I think I'd rather compare a triangulator to a switchboard and a SIC to a gridphone.

Anyway I can see the other side of the argument, I'm just saying, all the other top shelf extremely powerful fuck you forever tech is kind of difficult to use.

If we're going to make it harder to use, should lower the cost of the tool a bit too. But that would also make it more commonly owned, do we really want that? IDK
I don't see how that follows. Its price point keeps it in the range of people who -should- have access to that sort of power. It has nothing to do with its ease of use.
Making arguments on how a device should work when you don't even know how it works and what its limitations are is a little pointless.

I'd be interested in hearing Metekillot's reasoning for having a check added, but I don't want to know how the device works through OOC means either.

I also like the idea of having to maybe rely on more people (if you don't invest in the necessary skill yourself) which opens up more RP opportunities.

Can you really trust random joe baka sectech wiz with the knowledge that you have a highly illegal piece of tech? What if he just rats you out to the WJF? etc etc.

I like this idea. It's as simple as investing UE into systems skill, getting a skillsoft and the or a buddy who can operate it for you. However they are on the fly tools generally (I'd assume) and that could make them being dependable on others somewhat useless. It does lead to more RP for those who would seek to betray their chums for that pay or the tool itself.

Perhaps operating the tool can work in a way that with no skill it's inaccurate a third of the time so if your target is moving you're basically screwed (on the fly tool) and if they're not you're going to be operating it like the fool you are and spending a bit of time homing on in whoever it is that you're trying to locate.

With the relevant skill that could make the above irrelevant and prove true in results from the start depending on skill/stats as far as pinging the exact location every time. That would offset the cost of such a pricey tool being completely useless to those without the relevant skill but still provides more roleplay and opportunities for those with the invested skill the tool is dependant on for accurate results.

alkaline: I know enough to form an opinion on it.

Roycethe59: agreed. I like the idea of these characters having to expand their networks with some technical experts to do Crimes better. I personally think the price is still fine for what it does. It's not a huge hurdle and the utility should be well worth it still.

The reason I chimed in here isn't necessarily because I think triangulators are too powerful but because despite its Shadowrunny archetypes, the only person you really need on any kind of a job to get most crime done in Sindome is a street sam. Medical duties can be offloaded onto a clinic of your choice, cyberware can be harvested by anyone and installed by any number of NPCs, decking simply isn't important enough to matter most of the time, driving and flying are very easy and economics mean it's usually the big tough guys who get cars first anyway, et cetera et cetera.

Introducing more situations especially in high risk scenarios where you -need- someone who can do a specific thing would help put the spotlight on other archetypes, especially in the Mix where they tend to be undervalued.

Vera succinctly stated my points.
I agree with Vera. I think adding a skill check or something similar to the item, along with others, would help balance the game and make street sam/solo/fighter types more reliant on non combat characters to do more technical and precise tasks.
Yeah Ephem, that's a big point that's been brought up many times for I think very valid reasons.

I'm 100% with Vera here. Without derailing the thread entirely, I think it goes without saying that most non-combat archetypes are undervalued to say the least, especially some of the tech-oriented ones, which is funny considering the theme of the game, and this seems like a prime way to tweak that a little. This doesn't seem like something you should be able to do without some skill, I don't care how simple the interface on the tool seems to be ICly or how expensive it is. The Grid / grid hacking 'interface' isn't complex but it has basically 3 skills involved, so. Making IRL comparisons is silly, we're talking game balance here.

I think no one who has a triangulator will ever rely on a techie to use it; whoever can afford to buy/steal/keep one will use skillsofts 99% of the cases.
Agree 100% with Kuzco. Doing this will only make it so you need to currently have a skillsoft socket and a security skillsoft to use your tech. No one with a SIC triangulator is going to trust anyone else to use it, so don't fool yourself into thinking this will open up play avenues for techie characters. All it will do is empower characters with SIC triangulators who also invest in security and force those unwilling to do so to always have a skillsoft socket, which has its own impact on their bottom line combat skills.

The built-in drawback of SIC tracking is that, unless you're a corporate entity with access to such equipment like the WJF, you invest [insert extremely high amount of chyen] into a piece of equipment that you can then easily lose or have stolen. That's already a gigantic investment up front. Making it harder to use is just tacking more cost onto ownership when it's already expensive to begin with.

Secondly, to echo Villa, the whole point of it is that it's a tool that doesn't require any skill to use. Does a SatNav require skill? Isn't it doing the same thing? When I buy a SIC tracker, I don't want you to give me graph paper and a protractor and tell me good luck, I want a piece of technology that does something I can't. There's zero complication in how it works: it takes an input, it gives you output.

A SkillSoft comes with a lot of built in drawbacks that can make it a suboptimal choice for many characters. Needing one to operate one of the most powerful tools in the game if you're too paranoid to have a techie on board seems perfectly fair.
I get the argument that, realistically, a lot of tech should or would be easy with easy to use interfaces. But I am totally willing so adjust the IG reality a little if it means that increasing how often characters need each other.

As far as using skilsofts go, one could work around that a little by requiring a combination of skills to use something like this?

For example:

Step 1: A cracking or secure tech check to get this illicit triangulator onto the network without it being detected and the authorities alerted of it's location.

Step 2: An electro tech or systems check to enter the needed data into the triangulator.

Step 3: A forensics or programming check to interpret the data and isolate the SIC signal from the 70 million other SIC signals.

Sure, a socket has three slots (which I personally feel is too many) but this would increase the investment one would have to make if they want to avoid bringing another player into their RP.

To be honest, I'd rather see a cheaper triangulator (which PCs might be more willing to expose to other players) that requires high skill levels and then put the high price of operating it one one's own (without the needed skills) int the skillsofts. Then one has a choice when they buy the new, shiny triangulator - do I invest 300K to buy the needed skillsofts or hire a techi for much less to operate it for me?

Just my first thoughts on the matter! They may very well be quite flawed.

One could easily circumvent the lack of trust they would need to give their triangulator to a random techie by ALSO hiring a guard to watch over the techy as they operate it. Not only does my idea, if implemented, make this a practical situation that further involves two more players (rather than just the single one) in high-stakes exciting RP, it also adds another avenue for brainy-type characters, who are EXTREMELY EXTREMELY EXTREMELY EXTREMELY underrepresented in the practical view of the game world (5% useful, whereas 95% of anything is needed to be done by a combat char) to actually be useful. If you wanna load up with high-PDS cyberware so you can powergame out of needing another player, that's on you, and it's a strategy I myself take part in quite frequently, but I think my idea stands enough on its own merits. Besides, I would go as far to say as that you would need either a Platinum relevant-skill Soft to make up for having mediocre 'int' if you haven't invested UE in intelligence for the relevant skill rolls to use the device.
I think we should consider just removing the SIC triangulator altogether and make it a high level Grid 3.0 feature for deckers amongst a variety of other more stat/skill accessible but legally grey area SIC functions.

All powerful items are cool but if they just stay behind locked doors and rarely change hands - they're better served as a high end skill for people who pick up an archetype outside of combat monkey and I really think deckers need the love.

I agree with this alternative also.

Deckers should be super useful.

Yes to Reefer's idea.
I think Reefer's idea is cool too (although I'm sure Grid 3.0 will be making deckers more useful already.) Bottom line is when I think of hijacking a network to illegally trace someone's location, a tech-illiterate guy pressing buttons on an expensive toy in his basement is not the first mental image to come to mind.

Some people will probably bypass this with skillsofts, but we don't have 10 players online max anymore and we all know a handful of tech-focused newbie characters who dropped off the game because they didn't have much to do. Live a little and hire a dude.

A SkillSoft is a huge investment with big drawbacks. Seems fine if someone wants to get one instead of making a friend. That works out both ways.
Plus all skill checks require stat checks, so you need to invest UE to use a Skillsoft properly.
I like the decking/Grid 3.0 idea. Decking and counter-decking as an essential element of every op/mission/heist would be CPAF.
I think we should consider just removing the SIC triangulator altogether and make it a high level Grid 3.0 feature for deckers amongst a variety of other more stat/skill accessible but legally grey area SIC functions.

All powerful items are cool but if they just stay behind locked doors and rarely change hands - they're better served as a high end skill for people who pick up an archetype outside of combat monkey and I really think deckers need the love.