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Armor Fixes
increasing your survival rate

Hi, just a heads up that the dev team has started to review all armor in the game. From leather jackets to WJF armor.

Right now no changes should be felt by the players as we are in the math phase, but soon things should start to change.

Things being taken into account are armor layering, armor type (soft, weave, plates, etc), weight and the new range of damage on weapons.

Also we have a few gaps in out armor lists, so if you want to help making new armor descriptions and worn messages into the game, let us know. While this doesn't mean that custom armor will be implemented with the armor overhaul, it means that we will have a basic ruleset on how our armor works. And that might be the starting point for custom armor. For now buy the protection you need and overlay a pretty desc over it.

So, uh, ignore me if this is not the right venue for suggestion (I really have no idea how to get in touch with Staff save xhelp and that seems inappropriate for this), but I'd be willing to help write out any descriptions/worn messages you're looking to fill (it's really all I'm good for sometimes). If you'd like, that is. Helpfulness, woo.
Hit me up in game if u still need desc write ups.
I'd be happy to offer my assistance with this for whatever you guys need.
I've also got plenty of free time to offer up for writing @desc's if needed.
Hive mind I need your help.

While refactoring and expanding the armor in game we will need to create new brands of clothing and armor. These will be part of existing companies, so neXus, Du-Wear, Protek, ZMI and Ecogear are all in while making their segments for different protective clothing.

Right now we need brands for:

- Basic leather clothes line (jackets, pants, dress, etc)

- Basic Ecogear fabric clothes line (softshell jacket, thermals, etc...)

- Combat range armor line A and B (these are akin to xo5 where you wear a bodyglove and parts on top of it. Kinda like these:

Send your ideas to jinx at sindome dot org

Oi, where's everyone that said they would help?
Well I would help but it seems confusing. If the brands are coming from companies that already have brand names... why not just use their brand name and make it a different -line- of clothing. Like neXus carcapiece instead of tri-layer leather or stuff like that?
Are all Coca-Cola prodcuts named Coca-Cola? No, we have sprite, tang, aquafina, etc... Same thing.
Yeah but clothes are different. You don't See Kalvin Cline selling 'Shelly Carver' clothing, they sell Kalvin Cline
PVH Corp., one of the world’s largest apparel companies, owns and markets the iconic Calvin Klein and Tommy Hilfiger brands worldwide. It is the world’s largest shirt and neckwear company and markets a variety of goods under its own brands, Van Heusen, Calvin Klein, Tommy Hilfiger, IZOD, ARROW, Warner’s and Olga, and its licensed brands, including Speedo, Geoffrey Beene, Kenneth Cole New York, Kenneth Cole Reaction, MICHAEL Michael Kors, Sean John, Chaps, Donald J. Trump Signature Collection, Joseph Abboud, DKNY, Ike Behar and John Varvatos.

All under the same corporation... q.e.d

Well, 'imprints' exist in fashion just like they do in soda brands or car companies or comic book publishers.

I think what Jinx means, maybe, is, like, 'From the fashion-conscious, security-minded genius marinade that is Protek, we're proud to announce our new line of urban protective apparel, 'Sexy Concrete', for the winter 2099 season! Get your new 'SYCT' quad-layer trenchcoat in fine* establishments today!

* - Not in your neighborhood, filthy Mixer scum

Armor however!

Cova Yo Ass

Hard Knocks

Distance (this would be light armor)

So should we email the ideas now or just post it here like stryder (which will cause a fuller thread but also give others the posibility to work with thrown in ideas)
I've emailed some ideas to Jinx via email today as that's what was asked.

I can throw them up here as well as i'm sure my own suggests arent very good as fashion aint my thing. but its its going to prompt others that are better then i can if that's going to be of help?

Send the ideas via email. So I can categorize them, sort them and not lose them.
New armor items in game:

EcoGear Softshell series (jacket, pants, onesie, gloves)

Leather Jacket (real leather)

Them WJF seem to be getting all nice shit...
Xo5 is now updated. Both price-wise and armor-wise...

A lot of new armor is in game. softshells and leather jackets (real ones) will give protection from the environment.

hoodies were updated to reflect their warmth as well.

Any plans for badlands or space specific armor? Some tribal vaguely fallout-esque focused on surviving the elements and fancy space clothing designed to combat issues like reduced gravity, hull breaches, etc.

Utility and gear that tells a story of where you're from plus social status is always nice.

There is space specific clothing to help brave the vacuum. We just need to have Jinx see if it needs some armor value associated with it as well, maybe create some variations. Space is still a very small part of the IC world, exposure wise so it'll likely be last on the list for armor considerations.
As Cerb said, I'm going through all clothes in game. At the moment we're creating - and I say we're because players are helping immensely - new clothes that will protect you from the elements.

The softshell line from EcoGear is an example of this. Not really armor in a knife/bullet/bat proof way, but it will protect you from cold and heat and prevent any damage from it. Of course other materials like leather do give you some protection from physical damage. Most of these basic protection items were non-existing so we needed to create one line of clothing to cover it. Hence it takes longer. After we have these new items, I can go and make sure they work as they should, price them accordingly and set them on sale on the current stores.

With the hoodies, xo5 and judge armor, I just needed to make sure it had the right armor values, price, weight and penalties. Same will happen with all existing neXus, DuWear, Protek and etc...

Once that pass is ready we will see what needs to be created to fill the existing gaps in the armor range in the game.

Happy friday the 13th!

neXus armor is re-factored

Du-Wear armor is re-factored

Protek armor is re-factored

New WJF cadet armor partially in game (needs more parts)

Old WJF Medic armor re-factored

Please remove your armored items and wear them back.



We've implemented an old feature to all armor in game. Now the game will complain when you try to put items in the wrong layering order.

Basically thinner items should be worn under thicker ones. This will enforce a limit on layering armor and also will make sure things like a comfort layer needing to be under the hard plating.

This also means that you might face issues wearing a non-armored jacket over your flak jacket to hide it. We know about this and are discussing what items can be an exception to the rule.

If you find anything that isn't layering correctly or making sense, blame Jinx and let him know.

@bug it or do you have a preference?
Tried wearing a poncho over my protek dress and it wouldn't work. It returned 'Your tangerine poncho should really be worn underneath of the Protek proline nanoweave dress.' I think its better to be worn over? Since its a disguise and makes more sense. Thanks
That was what I was going to suggest as well. I can't wear my sweet protek shades under my suspicious hoodie for maximum sketch-baggery no more. Such sadness. Disguises should be able to cover armor for sure.
Can't wear my suit jacket over my armor pants. Please fix. Gotta protect the junk and display the trunk.
Additionally, ProTek codpieces can't be worn over Protek pants.
ponchos, hoodies are fixed. Protek codpiece should be under, check its desc. The tailored items will have a new command to set if they are able to be worn over armor. Rule of thumb is that normal clothing shouldn't be over armor, so either change the coverage on your suit or don't wear it over armored pants.
Things that should be okay to wear both under and over armor:

• Gun holsters

• weapon sling

• sword scabbards

• knife sheaths

• Jewelry

• Disguising gear

Additionally armor will restrict your movement now, this is reflected in some small penalties when you wear them.
I can't wear my ProTek Proline codpiece under my Du-Wear cargo pants. Also, this command you speak of for tailored items. Is it ready yet? Can it be used on already tailored items without Artistry?
I dont appear to be able to wear my protek trenchcoat over the top of other protek gear.
Wintermute made a good point on OOC-Chat, that one of each piece of Protek gear is taken to be a "complete set" and that as such you'd think that you could wear them all at once.

Is this not the situation in the new armor reality? Is it a "set" which should all be wearable or is it a collection you have to pick and choose from?

I've been having a problem with a piece of clothing tailored to look like a necklace not going over a protek flak jacket. It says I should wear it underneath.
Find a tailor to "adjust" it.
What should I have them to do it to correct it?
The better the armor the less you can layer it.

Before last week all armor was crap and you needed all protek items to have some protection. Now you can have a lot of protection on one layer. Really, one layer of protek now gives more protection than wearing one of each protek item did. Armor was never supposed to be tshirt, flak, jacket and trenchcoat... This is beyond surreal and one of the main reasons for the layering thickness to be set.

To avoid abuse the items now restrict how many layers you can put. Differently from armor sets like Xo5, Xo3, GARB, WJF Armor, who are the armor sets that have a bodysuit and pieces that attach over it. Protek, neXus, Du-Wear are armored brand collections, just like a clothes line, and shouldn't be seen as a set since they have different options. You shouldn't be wearing pants, shirt, dress, jacket, skirt, codpiece and a trenchcoat over it to make a "set"... What you have is different options to protect yourself: A vest, a shirt, a jacket, a trenchcoat and you can use a subset combination of those, these are armored items, their description shows them being thick, bulky and/or heavy.

Yes, it is a big difference but it was made to remove the meta and prevent abuse with the new armor values. And no, it is not final, we're still improving on it.

stryder asked:

[bWhat should I do to have them correct it?[/b]

Jinx said above:

tailored items will have a new command to set if they are able to be worn over armor

So if you ARE a tailor, you'll know when the time comes. If you're HIRING a tailor, just trust that they'll either be able to adjust your item or tell you it can't be done.


Be realistic, according to the guidelines and realism Jinx described above. Don't just automatically make things work for both over and under armor. Since you can't actually make armor at all, almost everything you make or consider adjusting should probably be "only under", unless there's a really good reason for making it fit over thick, bully armor instead, or an even better reason for it to fit both ways.

Okay thanks Linekin and awesome work improving the game armors jinx!
Some adjustments have been made to nexus and du-wear to allow some proper layering.

I'll be adding colors to the existing armor in the future.

Poor little TERRA Agents now have armored uniforms. Also we added helmets to the uniform.
This is really cool, thanks Jinx.

Also, TERRA agents should remove their armor if they haven't since this change was made to the uniform, to get the armor buffer, because you won't if it isn't showing the penalty to your stats in @stats.

neXus armor now have color.
New WJF armor added for cadets.
I know that spring is coming but long johns, thermal shirts and vests are in game.
neXus dress says it needs to be put on under a raincoat.
Why would you try to wear a dress over a raincoat? Having to wear the dress under the raincoat sounds correct.
Sorry, I said that wrong pre coffee.

Dress was supposed to be under the raincoat, but MOO was saying dress needed to be over the raincoat.

Must be a very thin raincoat.
I always thought the notion of armored "desses" (and I think there are "skirts" too) was silly, but I imagine the armored "shirts" will behave the same way. Pants too, if it's a long raincoat.
Raincoats fixeded
Hey Jinx, not sure if this is intentional or not. The white neXus gear does not have its white/color bolded like the white EcoGear does.
one is white the other is bright white ;)
I had a feeling that was the reason. :)
WCS Overalls and cheap military jacket will not fit over EcoGear thermal shirt.
Thermals are fixed now. They will be underwear as usual.
Du-Wear no has colors. Additionally Du-wear leather gloves are in.

Notice: not all du-wear items are armored, the ones that are are described as such.

wear overalls

Your WCS overalls should really be worn underneath of the gray EcoGear thermal shirt.

...Are you sure Du-Wear has no colors, because I feel really ..pretty right now...
Sorry, they *now* have colors :P
I fixed underwear again...
Protek now has a dash of color. Where it was black and gray it is now black and %color, with some items being full %color.



Coats and overalls fitting over thermal, also the description still shows the thermal first and fully.
"the description still shows the thermal first and fully"

Sounds like it's working as expected. An item is always going to either show fully or not show at all. There's no support for hiding part of the description if part of the item is covered by another one. Not sure if that's what you meant by "showing fully".

So, if the thermal shows, it's because thermal covers some body area which the things worn over it do not cover. And if it's first, it's because whatever position that is is high up on the body. Does thermal cover @naked neck maybe? I bet coveralls don't. Some coats don't cover @naked chest. I bet thermal does.

Hope this helps. Doesn't sound buggy to me.

Yeah, it does help. Likely something to do with the neck.

You wrote "I always thought the notion of armored "dresses" (and I think there are "skirts" too) was silly,"

As in they shouldn't exist & there should be only armored pants? Or silly in the way they look?

I'm curious because I can see women who wear skirts (Mix and Corp) have need for something armored for some sort of protection. It wouldn't be as good as pants of course but still would offer some protection. Female mobsters at a meeting, wanting to show off some leg and attitude but still have some semblance of protection or a corporate newscaster in front of the camera at a protest on the streets of Gold?

It's just immersion breaking for me. There's nothing about the 22nd century or the CP theme which makes these any more realistic than, say, one of those inexplicable comicbook brass bras (sounds tough, right?) which leaves large amounts of skin exposed so that the 11-24 demographic will buy the next issue. Material isn't all there is to constructing effective protective wear.

But it's a game, not real life, so, they can exist, sure.

So tell me about how armored skirts and dresses are immersion breaking:

Armored skirts came before armored pants... And remember style over substance.

1. I just did tell how I feel about the dresses and skirts in this game. I'd just be repeating myself. But I have thoughts about those examples:

2. Those aren't womens' wear.

3. Those aren't dresses and they're not skirts either.

4. You don't wear any of those without leg armor. Saying armored skirts "came before" might be relevant in a FeudalPunk setting, but I don't feel like it is in this one. Maybe you do.

5. Those designs are centuries old and aren't recapitulated in anything contemporary - NOT EVEN now that women are present in fighting, security and defense forces, which wasn't even true at all way back in the years when those pieces were in use. Show a modern one or a futuristic example if you're actually trying to be persuasive.

Nowadays we don't actually armor legs unless you're talking bomb squad.

It is acceptable a loss of limb of a soldier during a war, that's why most armor since inception has a skirt of sorts to protect the groin and upper thighs due to the lethality of blows to that area.

But to reply to your points:

Those aren't womens' wear.

Armor has always been unisex, only exceptional cases where they have been made to high paying customers were them made "female"

Those aren't dresses and they're not skirts either.

All of the examples have groin/thighs coverage in a skirt way. Be it a chain mail with plate or the striped skirt of the roman armor.

You don't wear any of those without leg armor. Saying armored skirts "came before" might be relevant in a FeudalPunk setting, but I don't feel like it is in this one. Maybe you do.

Most of these were actually worn without leg armor under it. Romans wore sandals with grieves on the shins. Japanese used shin guards and sometimes a longer skirt that reached the knee, but with cotton pants under it.

Those designs are centuries old and aren't recapitulated in anything contemporary - NOT EVEN now that women are present in fighting, security and defense forces, which wasn't even true at all way back in the years when those pieces were in use. Show a modern one or a futuristic example if you're actually trying to be persuasive.

Current personal protection equipment consists mainly of bullet proof vests. Personal armor is usually only worn on the chest as it is where all vital organs are. You can get a lethal blow to your limbs but a tourniquet and amputation will prevent you from death. And "even now that women are present in fighting", they actually were in the past as well, they just wore the armor at hand. All armor is made unisex as it is to protect internal organs, not to look good.

The difference in Sindome is that we take "style over substance" and do the dresses and skirts because in the theme it makes sense for a line of armored clothing to cater to women's design desires, niche market and all that.

I understand you don't like, but saying it breaks immersion or is surreal is not correct since skirts as armor existed before any pants armor.


I see corsets, skirts and dresses there too :P

I stand corrected.

It looks like Sindome has its own version of Godwin's Law, though: as the length of an OOC discussion grows, the probability of Cerberus giving someone the finger approaches 100%.

Why is Cerb breaking the pagewidth because he doesn't know how to properly copy a google link?
I've got a better question.

Why is there an alcoholic psychopath with an identity crisis continually posting opinions and banter that no one cares about on a forum for a community she doesn't belong to?

*drops the mic*

Just a heads up that a brand called ToughDening makes jeans that aren't paper thin.
Dermalweave now protects you as well as makes you fugly.
I think something may be broken with layering? Seeing lots of wet garments underneath raincoats, trenchcoats, etc
Does the top cover all of the bottom?
No. It looks like the top is not covering bottom layers.
False alarm. User error. =P
Not what I asked. Items cover body parts, like @nakeds they have @coverage. In your case they weren't covering all of the items under it, so the exposure made them get wet. Your raincoat only covers the upper body, so your pants are getting wet.

Working as intended.

EcoGear Hiking Boots now protect you, also added color choices and reset its value accordingly.
Brown leather jacket will not go over the neXus plastic mesh jacket. Picturing a heavy bike jacket fitting over a chain shirt, but maybe I am off ith that...?
Why are you trying to wear two jackets?

Are you really cold?

Working as intended.

All basic armor is done

That means all shit from softshell, jeans and leather are done.

With that, we have 3 out of 5 tiers of armor fully done. One of them is more than half done so we'd be in 75% of all armor done.

Right now we're creating new items for the Combat level armor... that means that the Xo3 will come back ;)

Mr Jinx

Is this correct?

"Your mustard EcoGear softshell trenchcoat should really be worn underneath of the ProTek Proline

nanoweave shirt, neXus synth-hide codpiece and pair of ProTek Proline nanoweave pants."

As it seems wrong to me...

It is right.

Rule of thumb: Thicker armor goes over thinner armor

Three new aditions to armor. We now have the WAI Damage Resistant-Hex Jumpsuits. They are called WAI CR-X, IR-X and PR-X jumpsuits. They are classified as a Defense class protection equipment in line with Protek, Corpsec Security gear and the WJF Cadet uniform.

With it we're reducing some bloat from the moo by using branded jumpsuits under Corporation/Faction vests for Corpsec and allowing the players to use them as well.

The jumpsuits and bodysuits are a great step to the next armor that we're making. These will be "set" armor (where all items from the set form a whole armor), by design these are worn on top of these bodysuits/jumpsuits. Xo5 is a good example. But we'll break the bodysuit out of the set so players and NPCs have a choice to customize their protection.

In the near future the Xo5 environmental bodysuit will be replaced by one of several available bodysuits. Each will have a different focus. The new ones are more focused on damage type protection, but we have even stealth suits on the list of bodysuits.

This is another mechanic being introduced to the armor layering, not to make things harder, but to allow for players to chose how they want to be protected.

I just did a quick update on so please have a look for some info. ;)
Aces! Shit yeah!
WAI Jumpsuit over Protek flak - Supposed to happen or no? It totally lets you do it (ballistic vest goes under uniform style) I'm guessing they are equally "heavy"?
Oops, fixeded. Thanks!
Not sure if this is a Idea/suggestion or my misunderstanding or is just something that i'm missing from my knowledge icly as such or something planned and is coming down the line..

But as the focus is on and so much work is being put into the armour/clothing and reading the *work in progress* new Wiki page regarding Armor and with the news from the town hall that more work has been put into and is going into locations outside the city (space/badlands)

I was wondering if there was scope for a variant of functional non armored/ very lightly armored environmental centric clothing.

Its probably not very high on the list as most of the of RP is inside withmore but it would be cool to have clothing range that's got other environments in mind. I'm thinking badlands survival (Thinking geared towards extreme weather protections aka Still suit) as the current description of what i though would fullfill this the ecogear range indicates that its Urban wear for withmore weather.


"EcoGear's urban clothing survival line, will keep you warm inside Withmore."

Also be nice on a similar theme to see a range of space wear as well (although i have zero experience ingame with this so there might be)

Id also like to see body suits like the info gargoyles in Snow crash, something that would fit with reporters/ info junkies that you can attach items to (cameras, mics, quickterms gizmos and gadgets. working sort of like a sling or a holster does.

I know that Player tailors can and do fulfill a range of clothing / uniforms for some of the more obvious professions / archetypes that would add a more diverse range but they would be non functional ingame. Not that its wrong for just RP stuff..

In summary all the cool work being down with on clothing lines is awesome IMO and the more diversity in clothing can only be a good thing. It allows a more theme experience, So mechanics chilling in the drome in oil stained boiler suits, Power suited corpies, yupping it up in the milk bar, road warriors straight out of the badlands shaking of dust masks and environmental body suits. Neo trans pilots wandering through the concourse in techno space suits, Gangers in mix mash proteck/du-wear gear. Deckers festooned in high tech neon color changing clothes. People being able to really stamp their characters identity . subgroup and affiliations with their clothing can only ever be a good thing.

Oh forgot to mention>

I realism re-re-rereading some of the posts above that some of this isnt new suggestions, but i thought I would raise them again since lots more work has been done and some of these are still unclear in my feeble mind.

Short answer to your question is: Yes

Longer answer is that most of the items you said are either in game or in the list of things to do and expand. Jumpsuits and bodysuits as I mentioned above will be filling this void of hazardous/environmental protection. To a point where you can chose to wear the heavier hazmat all the time or just wear the normal version that makes you more nimble. Additionally there are in game hazmat-only items that offer little protection from damage that isn't environmental.

The EcoGear's softshell line is kinda like a tracksuit or cycling wear. It will help you overcome the weather, if it will work outside the dome, that's for players to experiment and see, but it is marketed to the citizen. Remember that the Wiki is IC.

Most of the work has been made towards the more mundane items at the moment since these are the ones that were lacking most. So, yeah things are either already available or waiting to be made awesome or in the list of items to be done.

Lots of descs to be done and numbers to think on. :D

It's hilarious how the addition of colors to armor has brought out the wanton self-absorbed consumer in me like never before, where I will openly turn down better protection, because it clashes with my goddamn outfit..

Way to enforce the theme, pink kevlar... Well played.

Wildgiller, I think there is a way to change colors IG? Might be something to look into...I'll take that pink kevlar though. :P
I think you may be right. But.. Porn puppets is on. I'll do it later.. like, later.. Pass me another ebola-cola.

Speaking of jumpsuits and kevlar and other upcoming things are there any anti-burned alive type suits planned? Maybe these exist ICly already but it seems like fire is a universal oh shit type of damage that armor does not save you from.

IC goggles which provide tactical functionality can no longer be worn under things, and, when worn over things, lose their tactical functionality.
I got the message "Your neXus trilayer synth-hide trenchcoat should really be worn underneath of the TERRA jumpsuit.".

It sounds wrong, is it wrong? Thank you.

Working as intended
Hello. I have a question regarding the TERRA Helmet. The description of the item says very clearly that it has no *armor*.

Yet it's price and penalty to agility would suggest otherwise.

Could you please confirm this? Thank you.

Descs fixed, admin that created the items cursed at lenght and fists shaken.

It is armored.

Bought a pair of tailored pants that won't cover Du-Wear even with 100% coverage. Won't cover codpiece or pants. I tried them on after my flak jacket and they would not go on, which I assume is a waist issue. Tailor said to post here and I can provide the name privately.
Your tailored pants have no business fitting over thick armor.
Tailor said it was a feature now with tailored clothing. Seems to be some confusion. Guess we need some nonoweave Blazers, suits and khakis for those semi-formal terrorist-filled nights out...:).
Or wear thinner armor, yes.
She said I could not cover jumpsuits unless I ordered a one-piece article because of coverage matching. I am looking at all I see to look for combinations. At least I am contributing to the game economy!
It's not about coverage matching (exactly*), it's about how certain garments just shouldn't be worn over a thick, stiff armored item at all.

It's based on name, as far as tailored items goes.

There's another thread where this is explained and where a list of item names which "can work" is shown. It isn't names like "pants", it's names like "robe" - items which kind of make sense.

Hiding armor by covering it up with something totally non-protective is twinkish. Style over substance. Show off that Kevlar.

* (In a way, it's about coverage MIS matching. A tailored item which doesn't cover the same parts of the body as an armored item can be worn together with the armored item. 'Cause that isn't "fitting over".)
Thank you Vetra, well stated.

Thank you Vetra, that is really helpful information.

Would it be possible to put that link on the tailoring helpfile?

Please. My tailor was sure it was possible. I just did not understand it, only that there had been changes.
Armor goes over clothing.

That's it. Simple.

I got the message "Your SpeedDemon 5000 guitar should really be worn underneath of the midnight black leather catsuit." said catsuit seems to be a recently added generic clothing item that I got from a store. Thanks.
That's most likely an layering error on the guitar... I'll fix it in a sec...


I got the messages "Your bright purple pantsuit jacket should really be worn underneath of the purple leather dress." and "Your Roland rx-9000 Keyboard should really be worn underneath of the purple leather dress." I think it might be the dress, which seems to be a fairly new generic item, but the keyboard might be worth checking as well. Thanks.
Hint: leather is armor
Sorry i know i xhelped about this earlier but now a little confused because of reading leather was armour which confused me a little since armour can be worn over armour so:

"Your white leather jacket should really be worn under your nexus synth hide dress"

Now i can understand my ecogear softshell jacket not going over as its regular clothing but would i be correct in assuming that jackets in general cannot be layered over any armour? Like would they be too slim fitting to fit over light armour (i don't imagine an armoured dress to be hugely bulky)

Apologies for basically asking you guys something again but i just wanna make sure i've got proper clarification so i'm not confused.

@Lightbox Leather is a common clothing armor, neXus is a higher level of armor and won't fit under it.
Additionally we will be altering weight of armored items shortly, so be ready and lean up your inventory before you get stuck in place...
Some items are heavier.
All armor is now heavier because armor weighting 50 grams breaks immersion ;P
I didn't want to start a new thread for this and it kind of fits here, but the Du Wear cargo pant's description reads like they are baggy, gangsta style pants, yet they cover my "abdomen" like mom jeans. Shouldn't these things be hanging off my hips so i don't have to remove them first in order to take a t-shirt off? (yes, i know i can change the order i wear them in, but really?)

The topic's been moved to:

As for your question about the position of the cargo pants, read the description again (when you're wearing it). It tells you exactly where the armor starts covering. You'll see the belt location section of the description (when it is being worn).

That should answer it. :)

Well, i know about the belt in the description but is she buckling these things up around her ribcage? That said.. i also know this is pretty petty, but its one of those things i notice. Especially when i want my char to rock her midriff with some baggy ass pants on and go krumpin'. That's sexy :-)

So, its a matter of style over substance. I'm assuming that removing the "abdomen" part of the pants would take away from their effectiveness as armor? Asking for future reference because really...whatever. It was just something i noticed. I can always have a tailor make the clothes she wants. :-)

Armor is as is. These items are mass produced and not made to each character's choice.

You want to leave your tummy exposed, find something that does that for you, there are several in the game.