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Disconnection Cooldown
Codifying the community rule

I've added a new cooldown timer blocking you from doing certain actions to other PCs immediately after they disconnect.

You won't be able to frisk, get items from, drag, pickpocket or strip things from someone who has just disconnected. In most locations, this cooldown will be in effect for an hour. If they disconnect in a cube hotel room, apartment room (these room have the 'redec' commands) or any location with a bed, it will only be in effect for 10 minutes.

Does this include connection drops?

Thanks!

A connection drop is a disconnection. >.>

What a fabulous new feature. I like this very much!

Does this in any way change how we can/should interact with sleepers?

Love this, thank you.

I witnessed a situation this evening in which someone was referred to this thread for a related situation that seems to involve a contradictory community rule, so I'd like some clarification, because it's at the very least a big change and something people need to be aware of.

Another character did NOT disconnect but clearly fell asleep at their keyboard. (Stopped responding for several minutes following an RP exchange in which said character had been yawning and was in the process of saying goodnight and leaving.) The general community rule in the past has been to protect people who stop responding without logging off by taking them to a safe place. I think it's fair to say this is something most or all of us have done for IC friends, for the completely valid IC reason of not wanting your friend to be robbed because they were not paying attention (and you'd notice if your friend just spaced out and quit answering you IRL) and avoiding the IC "you just LEFT me there!?" for leaving a person in an unsafe location. Ultimately, in the situation I witnessed, the character who attempted to move the nonresponsive character to a safe place was not permitted to do so because the act of grappling was considered "having him in a chokehold," even though in the past, grapple has been considered to not be an aggressive action if RP clarifies the intent.

The disconnection timer clearly protects people in the case of accidental connection drops, but it seems to have the opposite effect in the case of ones that are going to be longer-term- e.g. a person falling asleep at their keyboard. And in this case, the rule stated here that a person could not be grabbed for an hour after 'disconnecting' was enforced even though the connection had not dropped. (At least I assume this is the logic, as this is the thread referenced and it is a change from past precedent.) And this seems to be a particularly harsh punishment when Sindome is a game that requires a person to get to a safe location to log out. Someone feeling drowsy can't bang out a quick "@quit" wherever they are and then be safe until they next log in.

"Tough break," the answer given by the staff member involved, does not seem like a stance that is ultimately good for player retention. I understand that, from an IC perspective, grabbing a person and dragging them around isn't cool, but we don't have an alternative to the grapple command and it has been used for this purpose as a standard practice at least as long as I've been playing.

So... 1) is this change intended to affect this, and 2) what do we do now?

And yes, I know there are rules about not dragging sleepers, but it's somewhat murky when the person isn't technically disconnected/sleeping. And problematic when they appear awake but are non-responsive. They aren't online but lack the protections of sleep for entirely unintentional reasons.

The reason you can't just grapple a connected and idle player and cart them without a reaction is the same reason you can't just grapple a connected and active player without a reaction: It's all IC.

The players in question, whether idle or not, are in a living breathing world, and when they're connected, the world reactions to what they do or what's done to them. The supposed 'victim' in this case, IE the idle person being grappled, cannot express their consent to passersby so other players, and NPCs, will just see it as someone getting chokeholded off a barstool and dragged off.

Yes, it is a tough break, because there is no amount of quantifiable time for a person to just stand wherever they please and say "well I'm inactive so I'm untouchable." Or on the opposite side of things, a player can't just grab someone and drag them off and not have everyone else around react.

So I have to ask this because I am having a hard time understanding clearly the right way of approaching the "Helping a friend trusts you to drg them to safety scenario." I though I understood it based off of Slither's response in https://sindome.org/bgbb/game-discussion/ideas/drag-and-lift-people-1313/ but this thread has made things a little murky for me again.

Do, if I understand it correctly, doing this could be construed by bystanders as an attack and might result in someone responding to the perceived attack:

grapple joe

north

However, if the person I want to drag has @trusted me and I add in the extra bits as Slither suggested, it is less likely to be construed as an attack by bystanders:

.squat down and .lift Joe as carefully as I .can

grapple joe

.make my way slowly through the bar, carrying Joe gingerly.

north

Is this accurate? Am I understanding things correctly?

So I have to ask this because I am having a hard time understanding clearly the right way of approaching the "Helping a friend trusts you to drg them to safety scenario." I though I understood it based off of Slither's response in https://sindome.org/bgbb/game-discussion/ideas/drag-and-lift-people-1313/ but this thread has made things a little murky for me again.

Do, if I understand it correctly, doing this could be construed by bystanders as an attack and might result in someone responding to the perceived attack:

grapple joe

north

However, if the person I want to drag has @trusted me and I add in the extra bits as Slither suggested, it is less likely to be construed as an attack by bystanders:

.squat down and .lift Joe as carefully as I .can

grapple joe

.make my way slowly through the bar, carrying Joe gingerly.

north

Is this accurate? Am I understanding things correctly?

You're overthinking it again Grey. @trust implies consent. An NPC or PC may ask what the hell you are doing hauling a KO'd person around because holy shit that guy just left the bar with the other guy slung over his shoulder and that looks shady as hell. As with everything, dealing with explaining that is up to you IC.

My opinion on this (the original post, not the grappling ethics discussion) is that an hour is a pretty long time to be leaving someone in the middle of the street without anyone being able to do anything. I'd reduce it to twenty or thirty minutes at most. And for the record, I am speaking as a person who's been unintentionally disconnected for an hour in the past.

Vera, @trust situations aren't the only ones that were addressed with the thread, either. Rather than bother coding in another command, the directive in the past and by Slither's previous post was to use it with poses to indicate the difference that you aren't just mauling them or doing something other than some rough, shady looking fireman's carrying hauling some victim off to Murderville.

Is the other side of this that after said hour, they're as fair game as if they had left their cube door unlocked? Rob them blind, draw 'I'm a wanker' on their cheek?

Let me clarify some things. That seem to be confusing or miscommunicated by other admin. No offense other admin, but I'm just going to clear this up.

1. You can indeed grapple someone who is idle and take them to a safe place. We do not want people treating 'grapple' like it's a 'joke'. It's not three stoogies time and you grapple your friend for the yuck yucks, it can definitely be a violent act, especially during combat and we want players to see it as such. That does not prevent you from helping a friend. If your friend was staring at a war at a bar in real life you wouldn't just leave them there. If a stranger was staring at a bar in real life, you might leave them there, and in that case it's your decision if you wanna help get them to a safe place.

2. We are still figuring out where the disconnect cooldown fits into the game, that's why we haven't announced any major policy changes just yet. We want to see if/what problems it solves. Once we've seen it doing it's job for a bit and gotten some feedback, we will announce policy changes regarding sleepers.

It's my intention that after an hour, people should be free game. This leads me to my third point.

3. YOU are responsible for your connection to the game, in the same way you are responsible for your actions on the game. There is very little way for the admin, let alone another player, to know you are disconnected because of internet trouble, or disconnected because your internet or power went out. The disconnect timer is a way for us to let players know, via code, if they are OK to rob someone they find. It's up to YOU to get back on the game and get somewhere safe if you lose power or internet. In a day where so many people have cell phones, this shouldn't be the most difficult thing ever.

If you fall asleep at the keyboard, that's also on you. If you're then attacked or robbed, you need to take responsibility for going to sleep IRL when you need to. If there is an emergency, a real emergency, you can 'xhelp house is on fire please put me in the void', much as I did when my house was on fire.

In the end though, you are responsible for your character and their safety. We have taken measures to help ensure your safety during internet and power hiccups, but it is YOUR responsibility, and no other players. If something bad happens to your character, as much as that sucks, you gotta accept it and move forward.

Any other questions?

-- S

I was going to post something along what Slither said. It is exactly my line of thought. I agree with every point and I think it's the most fair policy to be implemented.

Can we get some feedback on how this is working for folks? Any issues? Anything that we might want to consider changing? We are looking to update our policies on sleepers, but before doing that we want to make sure everyone in the community has a chance to offer feedback on this new feature.

-- S

Having sleepers vanish from room descriptions can be a bit confusing, honestly. The fact that there's no time-out on that is kinda annoying especially in the case of people who you share an abode with that do not use the @quit command.

I haven't seen it, myself. But I'm not a fan, conceptually. To me, this feature means if I'm at a party with my roomie, and they collapse to the ground (net drop), I have to ignore it for an hour?

I'd rather see some sort of clear in-between state where we're not allowed/supposed to take advantage, but we can still react ICly and make sure our buddy's good when we see them black out at the bar.

Perhaps making it so you can not grapple someone during the cool down unless they @trust your to grapple? This way most people can't mess with them as intended you could still help a roomie or chum as long as they trust you. You could also do the same with any or all the other @trustable actions like strip. Not sure though. Just an Idea.

Also, I'm not sure what ReeferMadness means when he mentions sleepers vanishing from room descriptions... Could you guys please clarity?

Lastly, I haven't really tried to push the limits here. I mean, as far as I know, we're still not supposed to mess with sleepers right? Any suggestions on good ways to test this?