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Being Successful on Sindome
What the GMs pay attention to

This is another recap of some things I said on OOC-Chat that I think are important for discussion with everyone.

For simplicity sake, let's put every player in one of three groups.

Group A: The Takers AKA The MeMeMe's

This player signs in and treats the game like it's single player. Everyone is here to entertain them, especially the GMs. They do little to give back to the game ICly, and their RP is usually pretty selfish. They don't create RP so much as are a void for it. RP goes in, but nothing every comes out. The more you give, the more they want.

Group B: The Uninitiated / The Part-timer

This player is new to the game or only plays part time. They get involved with some plots and generate some RP but more often than not there are big gaps in their play schedule so their RP stays close to the surface. That's OK, they play when they can and do what they can to contribute to the community.

Group C: The Giver AKA The Lifer

Role play circles around this player like a gathering storm. They always have some plot they are involved in, machination they are working on or job that needs doing. You might call them a player GM-- if you're in their RP circle you're flush with things to do and have a great mentor to model your RP after. They know how to scale the difficulty level of the situation to the characters involved. They know that they could do most things themselves, but asking others to do those things generates more RP. They strive to move higher, get others under them, continue creating RP, and over all, entertainment for the community.


So, those are the three groups, again, for the sake of simplicity. There are many more nuances to all of you, but it's too much to try to discuss every possible combination.

Group A is a time sink. They take take take and never give anything back. They are a net negative for the game. They are not part of our community so much as taking advantage of it.

Group B needs GM attention, and should get it. They are important.

Group C-- well, I actively believe that the GMs should spend more time empowering and propping up Group C, than any other group. This group of players is the most focused on creating RP for other characters.

If you spend your time entertaining other players, creating RP, doing cyberpunk stuff, and have RP circling around you at all times, the GMs are going to notice. They are going to think 'shit, here is a player who is doing as good a job creating RP as I am' and then they are going to think 'I should devote some time to making sure this player has what they need to continue making RP happen'.

That doesn't translate to 'getting all the things'. Don't get it twisted. However, it does translate to a higher degree of trust, and more attention from GMs, because they are going to recognize that giving you a touch of RP is going to snowball into a ton of RP for a multitude of other players.

Looking at the alternative. That same GM could spend 5 hours RPing with someone from Group A and have entertained one single player. No snowball.

Which players do you think the GMs should spend their time focusing on? The ones that are going to create RP for other members of the community? Or the ones that selfishly sign in to treat Sindome like a jRPG on playstation?

If someone from Group A applies for a management role at NLM and someone from Group C applies for a management role at NLM-- who would you want to see in the position? Someone from Group A that is going to collect the paycheck and hangout in their limo at their donation pad on Blue? Or Someone from Group C that is going to actively hire, fire, plot, plan, train, give jobs...

I know who I'd pick. Also, sorry Group B-- you lack the experience in the game to have one of these roles. If you are experienced and don't have a lot of time, well, that's the other problem right there. You lack the time to effectively handle a role with actual in game responsibility.

I won't fault anyone for playing Sindome that doesn't cause a problem or break the rules. However, it is up to each and every one of you to recognize that your IC actions as much as your OOC actions and availability, play into your ability to get certain roles in the game. It's just a fact.

We can't have gang leaders that sign into the game twice a month. We can't have management level employees that never do their job. It's bad for the game. It's bad for the community.

There are plenty of roles out there for part timers that can only play a few hours a week.There are plenty of roles out there for the handful of Group A folks that just want to play this like a single player game and not generate any RP.

What are your thoughts on this as a player? Do you understand why it's important that the limited GM resources be directed, in larger amounts, to the players that are going to snowball those efforts the most? It's not favoritism. It's pragmatism. We have a limited amount of time available to us. We want to touch the most players possible. This means minimizing interactions with Group A. It means maximizing interactions with Group C. And it means Group B gets touches from GMs and the Player GMs that lead the way on the player side.

Again, we aren't leaving anymore out. We don't ignore people just because they haven't had a chance to show us how great they are at RPing. You all know that. But if you want to succeed. If you want to rise up and have your name be known. If you want the GMs to trust you to run big plots, to fill big positions...

Strive to be Giver. Be a creator. Be a player GM. Be a role model. Be an example. Be a storm of RP that is constantly swirling, sweeping up everyone in it's path, newbie and oldbie alike.

-- S

I guess I see "The Uninitiated" as a group that needs fostering. This could probably be done by someone in Group C or in the form of GM interaction. Regardless, I think it is important that GMs and Group C players do their best to help these players move forward. Up their game. Might be as simple as the GM finding a way to help them get into some Group C player's orbit. Might be in the form of hints/tips/suggestions from GMs. I'm not sure. But I think they do need some love.
I'm firmly in Group B simply because my RL schedule doesn't allow me to play more(if only Sindome worked on Navy computers at sea).

However, I understand that my time limits at my current duty station limit what I can do in-game effectively, and also limits how far my character can go because Slither's right, it's not fair for a part-timer to be in a position where other characters might have to wait on them for a couple weeks or more to get an answer or something.

That being said, I think there's room for such players(experience pending of course) at semi-senior / middle management positions, or to hold a position of seniority that can be fulfilled when the player has a stretch they can play. Ideally, this is coordinated with @notes so the GMs know the schedule and when the player has time to have things on their plate, and when they won't.

In addition to the points mentioned above, I feel like there's a group between B and C:

Players who have the time to become part of Group C, but doesn't know how to step up a level.

Perhaps, like Barrien mentioned, tips and suggestions to Group B can help them step up their game.

I occasionally get motivated enough to try to be a C person. It's hard trying to drag RP out of A and B people, and getting/staying in C circles can be difficult, especially topside where the RP required is more complex.
I occasionally get motivated enough to try to be a C person. It's hard trying to drag RP out of A and B people, and getting/staying in C circles can be difficult, especially topside where the RP required is more complex.
I wouldn't say topside RP is more complex. More underhanded or duplicitous, perhaps, but interpersonal relationships in the Mix can be just as mind numbingly twisting -- with more immediate consequences for your actions.
I feel like you absolutely hit the nail on the head, Slither.

As a player I don't really notice the type A's as much as a GM would, but I ten million thousand percent notice the type C's. There are players that I interact with who manage to form hurricanes of plots around them, and it never fails to amaze me. Like, the reason I play the game is because of players like that. I try to learn from them and emulate what they're doing because it's next level stuff.

To the suggestion that there's a group between B and C of players who want to be Givers but don't know how, I'm right there with you. I think experience and knowing what's possible have a lot to do with being able to generate plots, but I think the best thing would be to find a type-C player and try to get involved with what they're up to, or at least get close enough to see how they're doing it and try to incorporate those methods.

Getting a little power or authority can really help, because that opens possibilities of trading influence for favors, testing your subordinates, creating enmity. In fact, I feel like that's almost Slither's point--having power and authority help you to generate plots for other players, so why should you have power and authority if you're going to waste that?

A few points from OOC chat earlier that I'm going to stuff in here--

1) Nothing comes to those who wait

You might be playing a nice guy. Someone who isn't all about that CP life. Someone innocent. And you might be waiting for the bad evil wicked people to hurt them, or to rope them into something they might not do otherwise. You might be waiting for their circumstances to organically put them in a corner they have to fight out of.

It might happen, but it probably isn't going to happen quickly. The players out there looking for people to pull into their schemes, people to abuse, or people to make enemies out of are not generally looking at the barsitters. At best, a barsitter is someone to murder and steal from--but they often don't -do- anything to even open themselves up to that kind of conflict. Passive players give active players very little to work with and it's a lot of effort to tease it out of them. Most of us would much rather grab someone who's already doing something and engage with them there.

2) Use the setting

The material reality of the game, per mechanics, is that every player pretty much has access to a steady, stable job with a guaranteed income and enough in the way of automated mechanical income that they don't ever have to worry about rent. No one needs to eat, but if they want to, they can afford food. Their rent may even be free thanks to a donation pad. They can easily save up to afford any high end item in the game by sitting on paychecks for a few weeks.

There aren't always players running around mugging and murdering the unsuspecting and weak, and staff rarely has time. So the terrifying predatory scumbags that populate the Mix can sometimes become background noise, and you can forget where your character is supposed to be. They have nice clothes, a pretty girlfriend, a warm bed, cool gear, lots of pizza.

Eff that. Mix lyfe is meant to be lived close to the bone. You should absolutely be acting as if you are destitute and eager for a way to get a handful of flash and some breathing room, even if mechanically you're doing OK.. You should be taking cues from the room descriptions and NPCs around you - Life is hard and there's often no way to be comfortable unless you're doing something your gut tells you you shouldn't be. Worse than that, other people are doing awful things and getting ahead in life while your baka ass is sitting at home. It sucks and it isn't fair because they don't deserve it. So go be bad because you deserve to have what they have.

In the absence of precipitating IC events, you can still use the atmosphere of the dome to seed these motivations. It might at first feel like you're sabotaging yourself, but in reality the best experiences you're going to have are going to be the days when you go all in not knowing whether you'll win or lose, and these events will in and of themselves give you the motivation to take your next step--if you fail and you're out a bunch of money, then you need to get it back. If you succeed and pull off some major shit, you're going to have people nipping at your heels.

3) It's OK to be a dick

My favorite characters are my character's enemies. I know I can't speak for everyone, but in my year here I've noticed that the biggest bastards are the most popular characters, the ones who become kind of legendary, even if people gripe about them IC. So start identifying allegiances, selling data, picking sides, fucking people over, and engaging in the occasional bit of ultraviolence. I promise you that you can get away with it and people will love you (OOC) when you don't.

4) UE is not the problem

Without getting into a discussion about mechanics, it's always possible to catch up to the big badasses eventually, and there are ways to give yourself an edge even if you're weaker, but if you're just sitting on your butt waiting to be strong enough, you're doing it wrong. You're always going to be weaker than someone, and there's always going to be some stuff you just can't do.

This whole game is about pulling in outside help for stuff, or being the person who gets pulled in. Sitting around waiting to be a badass is not going to go your way because the situations you're waiting to come in and win at are going to change or go away. Work with what your character is now, not what you think they'll be in a month.

So if someone says go be CP and you don't know what that means, start with this stuff. This all applies to topsiders, too, but of course they've got to be a little more sophisticated about it.

Commit more assault. The Mix is a dire place, it looks like shit and nearly the entire spectrum of violence is occurring everywhere all the time, even if it's just the room descriptions you've come to expect and filter out.

Just go out and put your bat through some teeth, it's some of the most fun I've had with this game. You don't have to stomp them out, you don't have to take everything they own, and you don't even have to be quiet about it. Pick the moments when you do make those discretions and they'll stand out even more. When those choices matter and carry a sharper point, there's less of a threat of extreme retaliation and you're more open to do cool stuff. An eye for an eye in a beat-down isn't a bullet through your brain.

The assault thing is tricky, just yesterday there was a situation and again it resulted in the Mix grabbing pitchforks. It made for some hysterics and a lot of people getting pulled into RP/action, so that's worth it.

Violence happens all around in the Mix, but when PCs do it a lot of other PCs get heavily involved even though they probably wouldn't in CP reality. But, at least it generated RP and fun. That's what counts. This post began as bitchy but turned into "this is fine".

+1 Vera
@ExMachinae Don't you think a lot of people got involved because it's such a rarity? Do you think it would be the same reaction if it was happening 3 times a day? The fact that everyone is getting involved is due to two things:

1. People OOCly like RP

2. People are unused to seeing this kind of thing FOR REAL, they are only used to it in ambient population messages and when GMs puppet gangers.

Bumping again for new players.
You spend a long time in Sindome just trying to learn the world and survive, but don't let that become your holding pattern. At some point, figure out a way to be mean. Be as cruel and awful as you possibly can. Maybe not all the time, but have some kind of hideous monster buried in your character that comes out in places. Whether through violence, betrayal, or Dynasty-esque sass and cruelty, let your character be the bad guy sometimes. So bad that it becomes hard to justify it from any angle. So bad that it makes other characters absolutely hate you. So bad that you feel repulsed by what your character is doing.

I don't mean dress up in the trappings of evil, I mean go out and ruin someone's day because your daddy didn't hug your character enough when they were little. Do it in a starched shirt on live TV, in a back alley with a sledgehammer, in pinstripes at the nightclub. Give someone a reason to go to bed at night thinking about how they'll deal with what you've done.

The benefit is twofold. One, it gives other people something to do. Even something as simple as taking someone's wallet can give them something to get worked up over, and more complex forms of torment can keep people occupied for weeks. Two, it gives you some distance from your character. If you take a hatchet to the face and lose two hundred K in gear, it's a lot more fun if you can laugh and go, 'yeah I had that coming.'

People like their characters' IC friends. They appreciate the acquaintances and occasional biz partners they sees and deals with. But nothing beats a good villain.

Well said, Vera. Great rivalries forge great characters. See you in the sprawl.

If pocible, could smeone explain more about the players in group A? I'll say this baed on my experiences with SD over the last few years I played the game.

The game isn't for everyone.

If you stand still and wait for rp to come, you'll keep on waiting without receiving anything.

I'm being honest here: Whenever I create a character, I have no idea about where they'll go and what their goals are. I let this develope with time, as I play them. I'd classify myself as a reactive player, I think this has to do with how I see my characters. My best times on SD where when my chars were helping people who were close to them. That was how they developed. What I'm getting at is that there are a lot of playstyles that are pocible, each person has to find one that suits them.

I just wanted to add something to this. Group B's are understandably not allowed to be trusted with bigger managerial roles etc. So why are they given leases on properties? Surely there's another B player out there who could make more use out of these systems compared to players who are prone to long bouts of abstence on a regular basis. That B player could turn into a C player if the properties we're revoked from the absent B's. We would never know as long as we continue to give property to players who make very little use of it as is, whether around or not, instead of allowing ways for that player who is ambitious, generally on a lot of the time, said property is in line with their goals, and will likely rope in more players in their schemes and give back more to characters as a whole and the economy, to get their hands on it. Just a thought I had.
^ if you want something that someone else has, sounds like you should start plotting to kill/ruin them.
Players deserve an opportunity to show they're capable of doing something with RP tools like property leases. If someone wants to rise up and challenge that lease and they can RP the takeover well, then they'd they'd have a good shot at being successful.

I don't see that happen ever, so is it better to just assume that people who complain about certain people having property leases but do nothing as just potentially unequipped for it as a Group A or B'r?

B Ump

for real you dont need skills or even a particular archetype just pick up the phone and get people to do stuff they will be so happy someone reached out and gave them something to do

I wanted to take a second to bump this post, not just for the OP, but there is a lot of good advice in this thread. I've seen a lot of new players come in and some newish players stick around, so I thought I'd mention a few things in this bump.

When I came to Sindome, I was a little intimidated and kept to a smaller circle of players due to spending the first few months generally overwhelmed. Ultimately, I wish I hadn't done this and had done some shit much earlier than I did. But being overwhelmed is okay, especially you new players, and you want to know why? Sindome is 30 years old this year (that's old enough to get a college degree, a career, married, a house, and have little baby Sindomes of its own), so that is 30 years of content created.

What took me a while to understand that not only is Sindome a roleplaying game and a PvP game, but it is also a discovery game and that doesn't apply to just skills. You have people to find, places to stumble upon, plots to get involved in. People to love and people to betray. That all takes time. So on top of 30 years of content, in-depth skills that take a lot of time to understand and utilize, but now you have story to discover.

That's my point of where I'm getting at. Story. Sindome is one of the few places where you can have your character do ridiculously whackadoodle shit and get away with it or die trying. You are not bound by archetypes or a job type; those are just a jumping off point to get you going. If you get yourself out there and just try shit out, it doesn't matter if you fail. You'll have so many opportunities to just do fun things if you don't fret about losing. Your character will have allies who they will love to iddy bitty bits, and then you'll have enemies that you'll love even more. UE has no affect on this; skills are merely just a tool to RP with others, so don't worry too much about those adjectives on your @stats.

Enjoy the theme that literally allows you to be just about anything you want. Your only limit is your creativity within the theme. Be as bad or as nice as you think your character should be, but recognize that not everyone is going to love your character. They want what you have and vice versa. Therefore, beat your enemies to death. Or for the non-combatants, take pleasure in outsmarting them with a trap so well devised they have no idea it was you. If you find yourself in some RP you don't like (say a certain IC job for example), don't feel stuck. Have your character move on in any number of ways. Embrace your character's depth and the depth of others.

Overall, enjoy the game and don't try to win. You really don't win in RPIs as a general rule and what fun is that? There are no Sindome cookies to win (at least, I don't think there are). Instead, get away with big things and try to go out with a bang.

I went through this thread and I noticed there was something missing which I think is paramount to being successful in SD.

You often will hear things like: "SD is a game about betrayal.", "Its okay to be a dick.", "My favorite characters my enemies."

Why is this? Because more often than not, the people who challenge you are other players instead of the NPCs.

For this very same reason, a lot of folks play it safe and RP as goodie two-shoes or become pad ninjas for two years and then when their characters hoard enough resources do a 180 and start killing everyone.

These seems reasonable, right? The problem is that being a goodie two-shoes goes against the theme and doesn't create challenges for other characters.

If you create challenges for other players, they will most likely challenge you back and this will generate back and forth RP.

However if you play the theme and act as the 'bad guy', you are putting yourself at risk of losing everything.

So how can you balance this? Because you want to challenge others and take risks, but you don't want to lose all your precious 'progress' and your beloved character.

The answer I found to this, which I will be paraphrasing from Quentin Tarantino and also feels counter intuitive is as follows:

You have to the bad guy but also make other players like your character or at least be empathetic towards them. If nobody likes your character (as a character, not as a person mind you) you are as good as 'permed' and it doesn't even matter how much experience or money you have in the game.

If other players like your character, they are going to love to hate you, they are going to want to keep you around (by pulling some punches instead of being completely merciless) so that you keep challenging them and you can keep on antagonizing each other.

So as always, it is style over substance. You want people to know your character, hear about their stories, like them and care enough about them to be bothered to take the risk/effort of throwing you into a recombination tank under the pretense of wanting your money or a debt of gratitude.

TLDR; Be a likable bad guy like Stuntman Mike or Mr Blonde.

Bump. As a veteran roleplayer, I want to add my own experiences and observations now that I'm on week two. Especially because I have a playstyle that is about as opposite to Vera's as possible (though neither are wrong). I don't disagree with anything here. I would like to add that for new *players* I expect you to sit on your haunches for the first month and soak up UE. It's a drop in the bucket ultimately, but you should be focusing on defining who your character is or exploring your concept.

The first week should all be about pushing against the boundaries of your box and comfort zone. What makes your character feel good? What makes them feel skeevy? Have some internal conflict going on and most importantly, when you've hooked some sucker into your roleplay, tell them what's on your mind and be vulnerable. Show that you're not just a blank.

You want some moral roleplay? Find lines your character won't cross, and put them in situations where their morals are crossed or hard pressed. Involve people in that.

You wanna MIX LYFE? Be a douchebag, find out who your peers are and who your mentor is. Choose a side. Some of the best advice I've ever gotten is that people who never throw their hat to someone *always lose*. Don't lose. Play it smart and build rep with a group of characters / players you wanna be around. Be consistent. Engage them.

These things give you stuff to do while you're mechanically building yourself up and also engages other people.

Most importantly: *Ask people hard questions about their characters*. Once you've broken the ice, ask them about *their* lives. Know your audience for this one, but people love talking about themselves and their characters. People love listeners.

Everyone's got something going on.

@Bit, I love everything except the 'sit on your haunches' part. I'm novice roleplayer, but I've done Sindome a few months. In my experience anyway, it's a lot more fun to err on the side of recklessness, even as a new player. Sometimes bad things will happen to your character, but you learn a lot and can enjoy the stories that come with that.

A month of UE really isn't much, and not having UE doesn't stop you from participating in things going on or even starting your own things.

I don't disagree @Rob. I admit that's my own personal bias.

I've been trying to work how garbage I am statwise into my roleplay. "Let's do training. Can you show me how to use X." etc.

It's real hard to not glance at my UE and be like "Welp! I earned my 3 for the day, I should just log off." But I've been giving munchkin me the finger, and I can say good things come to those who jump in to plots or make social roleplay for other people.

Being reckless isn't my play style, but if it is yours, doing it as an immy is universally the best time to do it.

I've been giving munchkin me the finger