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Saturday, Oct 3rd (TOWN HALL MEETING)
Put in your topics now, vote in the poll too!

Hello Everyone!

It's that time again. Our twice yearly All-Moo Town Hall Meeting! Start getting excited. The town hall will follow the same format as normal. We will open with the State of the MOO and then Senior Staff will make remarks based on the various statuses of their department and projects.

We will then go to the Agenda, which will be topics of discussion that are submitted by both player and staff alike. Everyone will have a chance to speak (though we will keep things moving along at a fast enough clip to get through all the topics by the end of the meeting).

After the meeting we will have a little social gathering in the theater where everyone can talk and break off into smaller groups to continue discussions or just chit-chat OOCly or throw ideas around.

This is both an important community event and a chance to socialize with your fellow players and staff! I would love to see everyone at the meeting. The more people, the more opinions and thoughts and ideas we will have to move forward with in the next 6 months.

There is a poll up on the website where you can vote on the best time of day and based on the results of the poll, that will be when we hold the event.

Please respond to this thread with any questions, and also topics for the Agenda. If you want to get a better idea of what to expect or what kind of topics to submit or just review old town hall meetings, you can view a list of topics and logs:

I look forward to everyone submitting topics and to hearing all of your ideas and feedback.


-- Slither

Free UE for everyone!
Stuff I'm interested in asking about:

Are there any plans to develop chrome in the game? Potentially simply more of it, cheaper/worse chrome.

Any overhaul on the grapple system?

Any plans for a 'bodyguard' jump in front of bullets function.

Any plans on putting additional details in combat messages? Compared to long blades, most of the other forms feel quite barren.
As a new player, I am looking forward to this meeting.
Plans to overhaul/integrate/expand on artistry?
Vehicle combat!
More development of chrome and vehicle combat also sound like good ideas to me.

Fire based weapons and pyrotechnic items/weaponry besides normal explosives?. I.e incendary grenades (if they don't already exist) flamethrowers (both proper and equivelent of aerosol and a lighter)

The ever hovering elephant in the room...the matrix.
Also i have to say some sort of function to 'defend' someone for bodyguard would be cool as in like someone iniates combat with who you're protecting you 'jump' in the way and get into combat instead of them.

There are grenades that produce only fire, but they're not known as incendiary grenades (think russian equivalents ;))

So far we have:

-The Matrix

-Body guarding

-Fire based weaponry

-Vehicle Combat

-Cybernetics Development

-Combat Messaging (I wonder what messages you are seeing though, as we have some pretty extensive combat messages that don't include long_blade. Could you please list a few in a response?)

-Plans for Grapple

Keep 'em coming folks!


One thing i would really like to bring up and hopefully have people help brainstorm on is ways to get players who find getting proper conflict and backstabby based rp difficult. This sort of RP is what sindomes all about and it's a shame to miss out on it because you aren't sure how to get in on it... factions were brought up on ooc chat as a possibility for getting more player vs player roleplay conflict (rp not literal fighting).

Now this is something i'd love to see, currently factions feel very static and kinda empty, some of them just provide a paycheck and not much rp beyond that unless extenuating circumstances come into play. Cerberus mentioned it's hard to balance npc's for faction aggression because make them good for immies to fight and oldies will curbstomp them but if they're balanced for oldies then immy combat characters are left kinda useless.

Now to avoid rambling my basic thought is factions should be more active and shown to be more at odds with each other and even if gm's can't do this players should be able to cause this conflict and anger. For example take mr A a ganger and mr B a TERRA agent, these guys are natural enemies and can theoretically do some great conflict but of course if one of them is a super duper oldie then well they're likely to dominate any conflict potentially easily, so a fix for this would be get more players all of varying builds and expertise being part of factions and generating good conflict and roleplay with one another.

It'd be great to see how this could be implemented or changed about to get into something interesting and working and would be great to discuss this properly at the town hall meeting and see if people can have good ideas for it and find ways to see if it could work.

TL:DR factions static and kinda boring, more faction rp and more (not necessarily physcial) conflict!

I want to revive the "small town" topic. (Also referred to as "summer camp", "the sixtyfive million", and "there's more than one <fill-in-the-blank> in Withmore".)

The game lately is RAMPANT with players making their characters act like there are only sixty people in Withmore and like they know each and every one of them.

This results in, at best, unthemely roleplaying and, at worst,unintentional or intentional metagaming. No, it really, really does. Really. And it ruins the game.

I've heard a lot of different kinds of excuse-making and far-out justifications for why someone thinks it's actually "in character for my character" to think some of the things they think, reach some of the conclusions they reach, take some of the actions they take, when the unmitigated reality is that the player believes that there's only one player with a HondaMitsu Whatever in the game and therefore their character knows who just drove past, or that there's only one player whose character is "lithe" and therefore they can turn Judicial evidence over the person their character saw in a poncho shroud.

It's almost funny to me when they're wrong about who they think did what. Almost. Because it's smarter to allow your own character know what's realistic rather than to let them know what you OOCly believe about something you've seen. It's fairer, it's better RP, and it's funner. It's absofucking LUTE ly funner for the other players, the ones who are rightly or wrongly on the other end of your metagaming.

It takes creativity to RP the theme. It takes integrity to RP your character's plausible perceptions. It takes thoughtfulness to back off from your burning desire to win Sindome and allow the City to be bigger than you are.

I will comment quickly on the last two posts.

1. Factions, absolutely seem static. Often times, conflicts between the two can seem, at best, some underwhelming RP, and at worst, a chance to steal a bit of each other's gear. I don't see many long term effects from said conflicts, at least where I'm standing. As for pc's within the ranks of factions, that a though one to get into without crossing IC/OOC barrier.

2. The small town feel. Yes, it's absolutely every players responsibility to avoid this thinking, but it's not always easy, particularly for less experienced RPers. I know I've been guilty of it in the past. My thought, and I'll bring this up, assuming I can make it to the meeting, is to make greater use of the momento system.

That's all for now.

As a new player, I'm looking forwards to this. It sounds pretty neat!

One thing I was a bit dissapointed by is the size of the city itself. After my first day, (where my head was spinning and I was a bit overwhelmed) I realized that the city really is... kind of tiny. For example, the Red district covers just nine square blocks, or thereabouts. I'm aware that because this is a game where adding areas is kind of a big deal, so that areas being no larger and no smaller than they need to be is essential, but it would be nice if there was a way to make the city feel more like a vast city you can get lost in, and less like a 3x3x3 cube of city blocks stacked on top of each other.

I'm not sure how feasible it is, but maybe a contact email for each faction. This could help provide better record keeping and a point of out of game contact for faction GMs, without revealing who the faction GM is. This is assuming we want that kept behind the curtain, of course.

For the small town feel, I noticed recently that a player run event did this, with only PC's applying to what amounted to a very small headcount for a very public location. It actually bugged me a bit that half an hour of foot traffic amounted to such a small number in such a busy location.

Not really an idea for the town hall, but counter acting the small town syndrome is pretty easy. All it takes is one comment to remind other people that you ain't alone.

!Grumbling for several moments while stuffing a fistful of chy across the bar, Player tries in vain to grab Bartender's attention away from the fifteen other people doing the exact same thing.

Keep it on topic folks! And keep the ideas coming :)
-Factions, yes. These seem a bit irrelevant to me (from what my char can perceive of course!) until they wake up and murder everyone.

-Availability of items. I know that it creates RP the fact that you have to lease, borrow, buy or steal items since they are scarce and or expensive. I get it, and how it is affected by class warfare and how it affects power balances. But recently I've noticed that some items are simply almost non existant and they just prevent rp and plots and jobs because of their almost nonexistence.

-NPC bodyguards: We can have pets, or gangers or agents, how about merch NPC bodyguards? Since PC bodyguards are boring jobs, very, having to just stand still most of the time. They don't have to be good or cheap or even reliable, but it's a good option for some characters.

-Other current bitches: the matrix, the artistry skill, grapple mechanics.

Looking forward to this! I hope I don't forget to login this time!

I would like to discuss Perma-Death. There's a lot of people who don't like the idea of it and others who do not. It has always been a strong aspect of SD but I think it deserves a discussion.
Good call on the perma-death discussion!

Right now perma-death is optional, which isn't very themely. I'd love to discuss how we can make it a more concerning reality, a constant specter that looms over your every decision instead of just something you can shrug off for the price of a clone.

Perma death is optional?
Yeah, more or less.

You don't have to leave your room. You don't have to ever put yourself at risk if you don't want to. Engaging in any behavior which could result in your perm-death is very much optional. Many characters play it entirely safe: They keep their clones up to date, and they don't mess around. They treat the game like a big chat room, or perhaps a text version of the sims, going back and fourth between the bar and their apartment.

These characters are in no real danger from perma-death. But at any moment, they could change their mind: Stick their neck out, try picking a few pockets, pick a fight, start an argument on the SIC, and actually make death an option.

Some of us play our characters that way all the time. But for some, death isn't something they really have to be concerned with; It's strictly optional, and they seem to like it that way.

After a discussion on xooc, we have come up with these ideas:

Have dying make you lose a flat percentage of your skills/stats. So new players aren't hit too hard.

Perhaps first clone cheaper/free for immies? Or clones progressively costing more and more, like an insurance premium.

Different qualities of clone. A cheap clone with high dcd chance for mixers/immies, an expensive clone with low dcd chances for corpies.

Make Go Light an option, even if you have a clone.

Well, people that don't leave their rooms also don't experience 99% of the game. Also in cyberpunk a lot can happen between flat and bar and back. Also there are different play styles, not everyone is here to be a combat character. In the end very little risk gives you very little reward as well.

Also death hitting your stats/skills is what DCD is all about... you're asking to re-code the wheel.

But I agree with the go light option when you have a clone.

-Availability of items.

Almost nothing is unavailable, if you know how to get scarce things.

Yeah I retire that item from my list :) It was a rushed thing.
Here's another thing: artistry seldom reveals the quality of the maker's skills in the product. Unless the player is honest and describes the item in a way that reflects their skill level, a 'poor' skilled artist can make a 'gorgeous' item and few people would know.

I suggest that aside from including the %color pronoun in the description, we require another pronoun: %quality. That shows the artist's skill level or a broad approximation.

The artist's approximate skill can be determined through the scrut*inize/inspect command, which will give a chyen value, which will be as accurate as one's trading skill and the roll against it allows. It certain cases, such as chems, it will also provide an actual quality indication. I do like the idea of adding the quality indication to more items, especially tailored clothing, art, etc...

Also, this does fall on the individual artist to police themselves, and I suppose the community at large to attempt to police each other. If you have a shitty artistry skill, it doesn't matter how good you are at describing things yourself, you should not be describing items over the top and of amazing quality if your skill level does not fit that.

As for policing each other, this can be done IC. Did you order an item from a tailor and although they described it amazingly and are asking a large amount for it, you inspect it and it says it only worth a couple hundred chyen or something? Call them out on it, something like, "Are you kidding me? The stitching looks like shit on this. I'm not paying five grand for this crap."

Delete my account
Great topics so far.

Thanks to all the staff for being receptive to making these town halls bi-yearly.

I am going to join the request for the artistry system to be revised.

Many people might think this doesn't deserve priority but I do believe the whole artistry system need an overhaul or at least to get patched up significantly. It needs to be limited like other skills are, so that you can't use it without skill and even limit it's use depending on skill and forget about the whole 'value' system which is flawed (for many reason) and practically no one uses. I've said this many times before, but artistry and disguise are the two most used skills that people use while having little or no ranks and get away with it and it is very discouraging for people who actually spent UE on it.

I could account at least 4 characters (that I know of) that make their own stuff without skill and hence deny RP to other players that way and get away with it. Also everyone is an artist on the side and since there is no clear discernible way of telling quality (the 'value' system doesn't work well with PCs) they are all amazing at it. You don't see this happening with any other skills.

I'm honestly not sure what's disappointing to people who have invested in Disguise, because you can't fake it with RP.

You can't quite fake tailoring either unless your buyer can't codedly estimate value, but, I recognize that estimation doesn't matter when people are looking at a person who's wearing a shittily-tailored item - OR a fabulous one.

I do have an idea about a way to mitigate this and I will propose it to Johnny.

The mechanical side of disguise cannot be faked in regards to say, hoodies, shrouds and such. What I -have- seen be an issue repeatedly is people disguising things like their @voices without the skill, sometimes even stealing other peoples @voices to bait traps and such. There may also be some truth in this when it comes to @describes. Muffling a voice to disguise who you are should/would not take much skill admittedly, but to actually make a fourty year old smoking man sound like a cheery fourteen year old? Yeah right.
Matrix! (woo)

Grapple! (yay)

Body guarding and multi player fights (nods head)



"You don't have to leave your room. You don't have to ever put yourself at risk if you don't want to. Engaging in any behavior which could result in your perm-death is very much optional. Many characters play it entirely safe: They keep their clones up to date, and they don't mess around. They treat the game like a big chat room, or perhaps a text version of the sims, going back and fourth between the bar and their apartment.

These characters are in no real danger from perma-death. But at any moment, they could change their mind: Stick their neck out, try picking a few pockets, pick a fight, start an argument on the SIC, and actually make death an option."

There is still danger from death & perma-death for these characters (though less, true). If they want to spend a few months getting a little more familiar with the game before diving into it more, I can understand that. They still can die. If they SIC and only go to work and bars on Gold and Green, they can still die. If they are in Red and stay out of fights, they can still get enemies and die. There are enemies around that travel between levels and there are enemies that Red has and there are enemies that Green has. All it takes is one wrong thought or an association with someone that goes wrong.

Keep in mind, corpies and successful mixers can afford clones, therefore decreasing perma-death. It's one thing that makes becoming a corpie look worthwhile. That and food on the table and a roof consistently over your and your family's heads. Your kids that just might actually make it to adulthood and at least to their mid-20's. That's why a lot of low paying jobs on Gold are held by people in the Mix and then maybe they work up to an Assistant and maybe get 8,000 or if they are lucky, 10,000 a week.


Have dying make you lose a flat percentage of your skills/stats. So new players aren't hit too hard.

We already lose UE, Memories, Time. I don't think every death should have this happen. However, should a player not have a clone and maybe, due to player ignorance or timing and corpse cloning fails, the character maybe coming back with a certain amount lost. I did like that idea on the OOC chat.

Perhaps first clone cheaper/free for immies?

No. Keep in mind, I have been in those shoes. This is something that Genetek would not do. They are a business. They are in the business of making money. And keeping clients. What do they care if someone can't buy a clone when they are already cheap. Not cheap if you die all the time but then, that's okay by them. And clones progressively costing more. (once again, business of keeping clients) That wouldn't work out well and they would lose stock value because as cloning happens and you are farther and farther away from the original body, your DNA will eventually start to break down after a while. For it to cost more would end up with major, not lawsuits as there aren't courts, but there would be major reprucussions.

Now, you mentioned different qualities of clones depending on where they got their upload done. I'm thinking that might be in the works though not sure about that. I do know about some IC thinking on the matter before.

Make Go Light an option, even if you have a clone. (I thought this already was but guess not. Yes, it is a good idea. Less suicides. Just for some reason, the clone never activates.)


@ErgoProxy - Not sure what you mean by people who have little amount of disguise skill getting away with it. You use it, you experience very fast the results of not spending the time learning it. I have seen someone in game try using disguise. As Linekin put it, you can't fake it with RP.

However, I like the idea of a quality detector for those with little to no ability to truly detect value. You should be able to see the quality of stitching for example not matter if you have an eye for such things or not.


Optional simplified combat messages for those doing the fighting. It is all too easy to lose track of what is going on once a fight breaks out, particularly with multiple people in a fight or weapons with long move descriptions (like katanas). I find I just can't read fast enough sometimes to see who is hitting who and where, much less then process it and act on it.

The message could go something like: Person A hit/cut/stab/shoot Person B in the [location x] with their. Then the fluffy descriptive message or just toggle the fluffy one off for the simplified message.

It seems a shame to lose the descriptive version I admit, but it is frustraiting flailing around in combat without knowing what is going on sometimes.

Maybe something like the real, fluffy move description is put out as normal, but for those actually in combat, the raw logistics (X hits Y with their Z in the Q) could be shown in a bright, uncommonly seen color? So the logs can still look cool to those watching, but those in combat can see what's happening.
I like that idea. In brackets at the beginning (maybe in a bright red or bright green?) the raw combat x hits Y, x blocks Y, and then the usual dark red fluffy stuff
Other than posture changes, which are already in %brwhite, very little which happens during combat can be reacted to in realtime on any way which matters to the outcome of the fight. Possibly disarms and running out of ammunition, if those are hard to see.

Beyond that, I'm going to ask whether the situation might be improved not so much with realtime messaging changes and more with ideas which have been requested elsewhere, along the lines of having more/better information about wounds location and type, once the fight is over? There could be more to it, but as far as I know, the main reason Ive heard about, regarding why players want "more information" doesn't have to do with what the content of the combat scroll is in realtime, but in wanting to roleplay against what happened, once it's over. I absolutely am familiar with scrolling back in order to figure out where I, or whoever else, got hit, and that isn't even an option for someone who might encounter a wounded character later and didn't witness the fight firsthand.

Be free to describe other benefits or ideas around enhancing the combat scroll, if I've missed somethig that's on your mind.

Another side to this is that combat is often chaotic, fast, and you make decisions that make not be optimal and based upon blurry information.

I would much rather prefer they be put into the idea Linekin referenced purely from an admin resources and time perspective. Allowing for post-combat information about wound location enhances RP and makes it more ICly accurate.

Okay, for the third time in a row the Saturday [6PM-9PM] seems to be the best for Players and GMs alike. We are going with that.

Saturday [6PM-9PM] October 3rd.

@karma I would love the hit location of damage -you- are receiving to be highlighted with a different color so I could know immediately what kind of injury to RP having.
Pretty much this. Being able to check injuries at a glance would be wonderful. RP immediately post-combat is often messy and fast paced and it's difficult to assess what just happened while you're also trying to deal with the RP at hand, but you also want to RP the injuries you're suffering from and know what kind of hits you took and where.

Also, as for keeping an eye on what type of hits you're taking as they come in: combat scroll can be a really real thing.

Linekin wrote:

" I'm going to ask whether the situation might be improved not so much with realtime messaging changes and more with ideas which have been requested elsewhere, along the lines of having more/better information about wounds location and type, once the fight is over?"

This would be nice. I write bruising (for example) in my @nakeds if I've been hit and a little summary (if you aren't killed) would be nice so you wouldn't have to scroll up on the page / client. I don't remember off hand if you're consistently reminded if you're bleeding but the summary would help with all of that and where (since I think where injured affects you in different ways I think).

Also, Linekin mentioned knowing where hit isn't an option for "someone who might encounter a wounded character later and didn't witness the fight firsthand." so maybe instead of just, 'an ugly bruise' or "A vicious cut" when someone looks at you, they can see where.

That way, they also would have to RP it too. If it's left uncovered, comments of appreciation and curiosity can be made, or, if that cut is covered, or the bruise, that's on your arm is covered and you're not moving, they won't be able to tell, even if the "Look Character" command tells them where. Unless the injured character RP's and moves a little carefully. (Then we can have a Mask of Zorro moment where the enemy grabs other enemy's/hero's arm and squeezes and makes nasty, snarky comment.) Okay, tangent done.

Melee Weapons

Strength in real life has a big part to do with using weapons of any kind. Fighting, not matter what kind, (even in video game DPS'ers) Strength does have a big part to do with it. If you aren't strong, you won't do much damage. If you are stronger, if you land that hit, it's going to hurt. (A punch from Zangief is going to hurt more than a punch from Cammy, based purely off of strength levels. Or, A punch from Han Solo is going to hurt more than a punch from Leia, for those who missed the Street Fighter reference.)

Maybe I'm assuming much, but even though this is a strength based skill, seems to me that agility is part of it already? The mechanics of the game are not gone over with players, but likely it's not just completely a 1 stat skill?

(A good example I have seen of someone strong but more agility based going against someone stronger is Jackie Chan holding and fighting with a pipe I think it was and then getting disarmed. So, yea, he can use them, well too, but not like someone who is stronger.)

Martial Arts (In RL) does have certain combinations of wepons, but I'm thinking that the martial artist would have the long blade plus Martial Arts skills and then that gets combined in a fight.

Okay, What I'm getting at is this - Brawling and Martial Arts do have 1-2 weapons where you don't have to have Melee/Long Blade/Short Blade skills. It's limited and rightfully so.

I'm not sure how much agility plays in the Melee skill but if not at all, agility should be involved somewhat?

This is an RP game but unfortuneately we do come across some people that kill you instead of knocking you out and leaving you with some sort of message when you come to (verbal or written). Could be very in character. There are a lot of stupid thugs. Fun when there are a few bright ones.

Robots / Robotics

So cool that this is being worked on.

I know I'm interested in making gadgets and yes, that can be RP'd and getting help on that.

I know that with munitions, you can examine items around the city and find things to make bombs, etc, with. Maybe this can be done with other items for possible gadgets / make your own bugs / find something that may be able to be used in making your own pirate broadcasting radio station or televised station? Outside of the obvious or not so obvious items.

MacGyver thing out ;) (What can I say? I have idears for IC.)


I know this has been brought up before where something besides hoodies, etc., could be made, for those topside and can't wear those.

I was thinking, we could wear a wig / change our hair, sunglasses, hat and yes, it would be up to the player community to not meta, especially if they don't know your character well enough.

The thing with this though is that it wouldn't fool cameras.

Maybe something for those topsiders down the line?

Not all corpies walk around as themselves when taking a big deposit from work over to the bank. (Not all mafia accountants do either.)


Your Free UE makes me laugh. :D

I'd like to add an addendum to the grapple mechanics point.

In the current game build creature NPCs (regardless of size or type) can grapple but can't be grappled which doesn't seem fair. Either they shouldn't be able to grapple at all (in some cases it doesn't make sense) or they should be grappable.

I agree with others that the grapple system really needs to be looked at. It seems very out of place because, as far as I can tell, nothing seems to factor into it really. Someone with no combat skill can grab even the most trained of fighters with relative ease. It has been very jarring to see one combatant winning a fight fairly easily, only to get grabbed and suddenly be helpless. I know this has been discussed in other threads, but I think part of the problem stems from the fact that grapple is sometimes used for RP and sometimes for combat. Thus grabbing people is fairly easy because you want to be able to stop someone leaving a room in a friendly manor. You also want to be able to drag someone who DCed somewhere safe, etc.

My main suggestion for this would be to split the current grapple into two separate systems. One would be 'grab' and be for RP purposes. No attacks could be made, and breaking it would be very easy. The other would be 'grapple', and work largely how the current system does, but hopefully with more use of skills and stats to determine how things work out, as well as a risk of being injured in the attempt so it isn't just a free attack.

Okay, enough about grapple.

For the Matrix... well, I'm sure everyone would really love it, but just as sure that it would be an absurd amount of work. Personally I'd be happy if the Grid was just... a bit more integrated into the world. Right now there is... well, virtually no reason to go there. I think 90% of people go there as nothing more than a mail service for their grid mail, and occasionally to skim the forums. Finding nodes is difficult, there is depressingly little information there, and even major corporations have virtually 0 Grid presence. SK doesn't advertise its cyberware. It'd be a great place to put in game information in about their products. There is this strange sort of addition with 'The Mind' as things on there are theoretically discoverable on the Grid, but good luck finding even the slightest trace of most of what is there. Combining the two a bit better and in a bit more IC format would be wonderful.

It would also be great if there was a reason to be on the Grid. Right now it is a bit of a catch-22. There aren't any people on the Grid, because there isn't much there, because there isn't any reason to put anything there, because there aren't any people on the Grid. I think putting more information there would be a good first step. Then again, if there really is plans to replace the whole thing, then I suppose there wouldn't be too much point to putting effort into it.


One thing I'd really love to see is more robots/drones. I know there are a couple of eyebots or whatever they're called floating around, but I think it'd be wonderful to see more of them, to see little drones running around performing small tasks, and particularly to give players access (or more access) to rigging of drones and what not. It might be that I just haven't encountered it ICly yet and it is really out there, but giving a player the ability to have some eyes in the sky floating around, or little mechanical assistants/bodyguards or whatever. I just feel like this is a rather classic element of cyberpunk that seems to be virtually non-existent in the game. As a short term thing, I think it'd be great to have a few more eyebots wandering the streets, keeping an eye on things, to give the presence of more technology and the feeling of being watched by big brother. It would also pave the way for seeing player controlled eye-bots and such and having less of a 'well, some other player is watching' instant mindset when they're seen in odd places.

I support the bodyguard suggestion. Give a 'bodyguard' command and any time someone does an attack on the person being guarded, there is a chance for it to target the bodyguard instead, or perhaps just enter combat with the bodyguard instead of the target entirely.

Disconnecting. Someone mentioned how strange it can be that people are always 'asleep' when they disconnect, even though they are actually theoretically potentially going about their job and such. I think it might be nice if there was a... well, a way to set that someone is disconnected, but going about their daily life instead of simply asleep. Perhaps let people set a space of time when they would be actually asleep, and a time when they would be doing their jobs or otherwise awake, and let them set a message that reflects the latter which it would automatically change to at the set time so long as they're in some particular area (like their own home). Maybe not take them out entirely, but adjust their message to something like “is off on their daily business right now.” and them logging on would be them coming home from shopping or working or grabbing a morning coffee. I realize there are significant difficulties with this, and it may not be feasible, especially as I've described it, but some way to not have sleeping bodies all over the places in our homes and such would be wonderful.

Permadeath – I'll throw my 2 chyen in on this. Personally, I don't see any problem with how the system is now. Increasing the penalties for dying would be a terrible decision, as it would only push people harder towards never taking risks. And honestly, I don't see the system being 'optional' as some put it as a flaw. Not all characters are risk takers. Not all characters want to be so extreme and live on the edge. It honestly feels like a slap in the face to suggest that playing a character who doesn't have a death wish is somehow not playing the game correctly. I'll leave it at that after spending half an hour typing, deleting, and retyping various responses.

Training – I think it would be nice to have some level of in game training. I don't think it should be much. I played a game recently that was all 'improve through skill use' and at times I found it very entertaining and loved it, but I also found myself grinding terribly, and realizing how hard it was for people that couldn't be on much to do anything, and how much less I was actually RPing. That said, I'd love to be able to get an extra UE a week or half a UE a day or whatever through some IC means of practice or training. Maybe visiting the gym for half an hour (in a way somewhat similar to how SHI works) gives you half a UE a day towards a physical stat. Or buying some sort of 'learn X language tapes' would slowly trickle in some points to speaking a language.

As I said, I think the amount should be very small and limited so as not to give people with more free time a large advantage, and I think the activity required should be relatively quick so people without a ton of time could do it without serious commitment. I suppose in some ways this amounts to a 'more UE please' request, and perhaps some additional restrictions could be placed on it. Maybe it's only valid for very low skill levels of things, giving people a means to gain a little passing familiarity in something as a sort of side hobby without having to devote overly much to it.

I suppose my thing is I'd love to see a bit more 'on screen' use of UE. I'm guilty of it too, spending my UE with little to no RP around it, and I'm going to try and avoid that more, but I really think it would be nice to have some sort of motivation, or even tools to aid in the RP like language books or tapes, computer/vehicle manuals, dojos, etc. It is though a fairly minor concern overall, as much of this can be obtained by the players themselves, but currently the only training I ever seem to see RPed at all is spars.

Gadgets – Thecraftydragon mentioned this, but I'd like to as well. I'd love to see more high tech gadgets in general. Right now there aren't (or at least I haven't seen) all that many things that make Sindome feel like it is set in the future beyond a few of the big things like cloning, the dome itself, and the chrome. I think the robots I mentioned above would help increase that feel, and perhaps changes would come about as a result of the introduction of the matrix, but even pieces of tech that we have now might be cool additions. Earpieces to talk on your phone without holding it for example. Glasses that can act as small TVs for the wearer. I'm bad at coming up with this sort of tech, but I imagine we could get plenty of suggestions for small things that could add to the immersion some. And yes, I know there are a fair number of things looking around in the city, but I'd love to see it more on an individual basis.

SIC chatter – Related to what bean_dip said, I'd love it if some scripts could be set up (though babble on maybe) to have some random chatter happen on SIC to make it seem a bit fuller. Wouldn't have to be overly complicated or anything. Maybe just a huge list of random names that throw out an occasional “Hello Withmore” or “Call me again” or “Sorry private SICer, no.” along with a few other things we commonly hear other players say, and random snatches of conversation. Doesn't even have to be a full conversation back and forth, just random snatches of it to represent the mundane stuff you normally ignore kind of slipping past your mental filters. Some people may not like the extra 'noise' it creates, but honestly that's supposed to be a downside of the chip, is that there is tons and tons of noise from it.

TL:DR Grapple needs work. Matrix please. Robots/drones please. Go bodyguarding. Sleeping when disconnected alternatives. Permadeath is fine. Training. Gadgets please. SIC chatter.

P.S. I'm sure everyone would love more chrome. This is cyberpunk after all! I think more exclusive cyber would be great, make you chose between getting option A or B like the limited slots in the eyes and ears do to some extent.

People talk a lot about the Matrix.

They say the damnedest things too. This like "It would be awesome" and "It would be an obscene amount of work.

If there's anything that's been made clear to me, it that neither of these assumptions are even remotely valid.

First of all, one should probably start by defining 'The Matrix'. Is it Gibson-ian? A consensual hallucination of representations of data, more beautiful than the eye of the mind can conceive, a separate world entirely? Is it Stepenson-esqe? A facsimile of the real world, social meeting ground where the quality of your avatar is a good indicator of your social status? Or is it more like Watch Dogs, an overlay on the physical reality that allows you to interact with electronic devices in the real world?

Depending on which of these it is, it COULD be awesome. Or it could seriously suck without the right balances in place. It could be a whole shit ton of work to make an entirely separate world, you may as well just start over with a new MOO. Or it could be trivial to add some small functionality to a few of the existing electronic devices in the game (I'm thinking security cameras would be a good place to start), which gives deckers a much more realistic role in the world.

I don't think it's very useful to just discuss these things in a vacuum, or as nebulous ideas which get dismissed out of hand as too much work. If you want to see the Matrix, start thinking up ways to make it not only awesome, and easy to balance, but also trivial to implement for our rockstar volunteer admins. It occurs to me that the ideas that add the most value to the game, and are the easiest to implement are going to get the highest priority, so start making it easy to prioritize for them! :)

The way you "train skills" is to RP with others who know more about how to use the skill, how the skill works, than you do. Most skills are employed with commands, techniques, combinations, stats, enhancements, ET cetera, which you don't learn about by spamming @assign. You learn about those things by doing and by mentorship.

This means two things: One, all the UE in the world can still result in a total inability to actually use skills effectively. Two, a means of training is already in place.

This looks to me like the same thing I just complained about in another thread: Players asking for "new code" to solve a roleplaying problem.

The training bit that was mentioned, I kinda have to go with Vetra on it though.

Vetra wrote: The way you "train skills" is to RP with others who know more about how to use the skill, how the skill works, than you do. Most skills are employed with commands, techniques, combinations, stats, enhancements, ET cetera, which you don't learn about by spamming @assign. You learn about those things by doing and by mentorship.

And there are some other areas to train other skills but to learn languages, you don't need a book to interact with. Not when there are so many grid sites you can use ;) plus, some people prefer running through the park instead of lifting weights.

This would take away RP'ing with others. You can just use one of the driving schools or the Withmore College workshops. Sparring does allow RP with others. See the difference? Even using the Armory to train in gun use can allow RP with others.

Grapple comment:


"Thus grabbing people is fairly easy because you want to be able to stop someone leaving a room in a friendly manor."

As much as I think grapple should be reworked to give people who are fast a little bit of a chance to avoid being grappled, I will disagree with that sentence you wrote.

It may seem easy to you but that's only due to the people you observed it with. There have been times when I couldn't grapple anyone and there have been times where I could. It's just that one line you should strike.

NOTE on Sleep and not being on the who -

This has come up before.

You can RP that they are off at work, class, etc. There are tens of millions of names on SIC. It's easy to miss them. Also, there are areas that don't have signal (sicnal). Some people go incognito.

Lots of reasons why you miss them. Then maybe they take a cat nap later or come out of where there was no sic.

PUT SIMPLY (in a general way): When you're offline, that's when you (the character) do your usual stuff (class, basic work, etc.) and when online, you do the RP stuff relating to work (special requests, additional hours) or you learned something in class that day and want to show it off to someone or talk about it and maybe learn a little more (RP and ask your questions).

There's gridmail you can use in game to help get in contact with people who are offline. :)

(I think I understood your concept on the sleep suggestion at least.)

Personally, I like the idea of the matrix being a sort of overlay to the current world to give Deckers some actual use.

I'd also like there to be some method for deckers to make money off of this as well, however; A reason for people to really want nodes (or the matrix equivalent). Sure the GRID is kinda meh, but it wouldn't be so bad if people actually wanted to use it and felt it necessary for their company.

I'd be interested in knowing how much time people spend in a given period (day, week, etc) on SD. Maybe not really something I need to know, but perhaps a good stat/reality check for the administrators. If you don't already have it mechanically available, polling people in the town hall might be an opportunity.

How much time to people spend logged in with their first characters, within the first month / year of gameplay?

Does it change in your second character?

Is there a correlation between # of hours played and character IC status?

Admittedly this is a bit of a selfish subject. But it might also be good in managing expectations for new players, or in managing IC economy planning.

If you're looking to expand the playerbase, but only have a game which people who can devote 5 hours a day of gameplay will remain playing for over a year (i.e. will feel enough success or have enough fun in their first character not to bail out) ...then maybe you want to think about what changes on time 'requirements' could improve retention.

Thanks for considering this.

Saturday [6PM-9PM] DST October 3rd.

Be there!

@ergoproxy wrote:

In the current game build creature NPCs (regardless of size or type) can grapple but can't be grappled which doesn't seem fair. Either they shouldn't be able to grapple at all (in some cases it doesn't make sense) or they should be grappable.

I agree.

I know I've had to pull my dog off of my other. Or I've taken my overly excited pup by the collar and picked him up and took him to the other room.

I know I've tried to RP this in a situation where I've tried to pull a dog into the other room.

I figure the reason behind not being able to grapple is maybe because of the guard dog type attitude the dogs have and then players can just grapple the dogs out of the way. Not good. (I might not be right.)

But some situations do warrant a way to move a dog if it's only responding to one owner and not another? Not sure how this would be worked out.

I'm going to take a wild guess that in all these IC situations, you people weren't trying to move your own character's dog, or one who trusts your character.

There is an IC way by which PCs can make dogs do stuff.

If you can't move him, it's IC.

I think I agree, though, that creatures who have coded blocks against being grappleable shouldn't themselves be able to grapple. (And I don't mean skillcheck code - I'm not talking about the ones who are intended to be grappleable, but are simply able to evade your attempt for legitimate, sensible and unsurprising reasons.)

Ironically, I may miss the beginning of this town hall in order to attend a dog obedience class.
This may have been covered elsewhere and I missed it, but will there be a recap available for those of us unable to attend?
DST? Dome Standard Time? (Is that not supposed to be WCT?) Or... Daylight Savings Time? I just want to clarify what time this will be taking place.
Yes, there is always a log posted after the Town Hall meeting with everything that transpired in it.
Zumini: Normally a log is posted for review after the meeting. A little bit of searching would help you find previous ones, if you're interested.

Sorry I can't just link you straight to them, it takes a long time to do that on my ipad.

@Ben - Yes DST is Dome Standard Time.

@Zumini - The logs for the last two townhalls can be found here -->

Thank you! I suspected as much, but I wanted to double check.
Dome Standard Time is real-life Pacific/North America time, standard or daylight, depending.

It's Los Angeles time.

This thread is rather unreadable now as it's been polluted with the actual things people want to discuss and their opinions about those things. We need a new thread just to collect the topics people want to discuss that links off to new threads for each discussion. I'm not going to read through this current mess to understand the point and counterpoints of a given topic.

If someone could pull what matters out of this thread, start a new one, make this consumable, I'd be happy to contribute on individual breakout topics. :)

Thank you.

Because this is probably where it goes..

In relation to the artistry part of the town hall agenda.

The system already assigns value tags to tailored items based on whatever math is crunching skill level + related stats + number of times you @finalized + detail level and length of descriptions + ??Secret other stuff maybe??

I do think some kind of tag which shows up on inspection based on a value range for a tailored / artistry item work really well. Just don't reveal what the range value is.

Iunno like this..

0-499 = This item appears to be of total shit craftsmanship

9499-14499 = This item appears to be of excellent craftsmanship

32999-45999 = This item appears to be of ace kool flash craftsmanship

Then you still need someone who can 'appraise' if you want to know how much to actually pay for a really high end item. But Joe Nohaggleton can still tell if your applebottom jeans were bought in a thrift store.

I think something detailing the craftsmanship of the item you are buying, independent of 'value' is a cool idea. For instance, different types of materials have different values. A super expensive material crafted by a person of low skill may still end up being more expensive than an amazing item crafted by a person of high skill-- we should represent works(person)ship in some way.
The reason I suggested the value range was because (I think) it factors in everything, including skill. Having something that only checks skill might not be totally fair to do.

Tailor A

Has High skill

Is dumb as sand, boring, clumsy, inattentive and lazy.

Wrote two sentences and didn’t bother to set custom teases. Didn’t spell check.

Tailor B

Has Moderate skill

Is brilliant, delightful, deft and has an eagle eye for detail.

Spent an hour on elaborate, well proofed descriptions and even set custom blood messages.

If you only count skill level, Tailor A would show up as being more awesome than Tailor B and to me that doesn’t make sense really. At least IMHO.

Musings @Wildgiller (and others)

Maybe we can also add into the description somehow the skill level? I like when the skill lvl is communicated in the description somehow.

Ex: ..., this competently made %t it fits over the shoulders comfortably, giving plenty of range of motion

Ex: The stitching, done by skilled hands, creates a design....

Ex This jet black button-up dress shirt looks crisp and professional, tailored and made by professional hands for a man around six feet or so in height.

Ex: this %color ...., Cut for the frame of a small man, this competently made %t

The stitching is simple yet sturdy though amateurishly made.

This terribly designed azure blue long sleeved dress is uneven in places and doesn't sit well but still covers the wearer, protecting them from some of the elements, even if one sleeve only goes to the elbow.

* For alterations done by other artists for example (or later when tailor is better):

... for some warmth and seems to have had some minor adjustments done by skilled / expert hands.

Wildgiller: patches of blood (yes!)

* I remember a man buying some boots and later realizing they were women's boots. (so artists, make it a little clearer. *smile* )

* I also remember someone's body suit that ended up taking up much of my webclient screen in description. That was silly in my opinion though I have to admit, when I did get a chance to go back to read it, it was cleverly described. But this could have been easily described in a lot less words. Though clever, seems to me to be jacking up the worth, though they were very skilled it seems.

So, I'm interested in seeing what happens with this skill in the future.

(Psst: Stuff around to make gadgets with, like how you find things to make bombs, so a similar idea?)