Login to post. Membership required.
So, in recent times I've noticed a trend of people waiting for staff and player judges to be asleep before acting on the topside sectors. This is a problem.
To combat this, how about we set up the judge NPCs to respond to combat on gold/green automatically? Have WJF-OPS dispatch judges to shoot/arrest aggressors that fight on gold/green when no staff are available or player judges are asleep.
(Edited by Ares at 10:53 am on 4/2/2024)
By Bruhlicious at Apr 2, 2024 10:50 AM
I'm honestly pretty surprised this isn't already a feature- I'd expect there to be some sort of crimcode system like other MUDs.
By Leudo at Apr 2, 2024 10:54 AM
I've had this problem myself, yes it's an issue, especially when there are judges literally standing in the same area or an area right next to where the combat is happening. Corporate characters calling out for help in Gold or Green and getting no response shouldn't really be a possibility in my opinion. Maybe there could be some system where mixers don't get as much attention from the system, just to drive the class divide a little more.
By Emily at Apr 2, 2024 10:55 AM
One issue that would have to be worked out is determining what the Judge does once there. It's rarely black and white in my experience and doesn't usually start with combat
Will these NPCs be able to figure out what's going on? Will they be able to determine the crime and appropriate punishment? Can they give fines and have them make sense?
Further, there are IC tools that Judges need to use. Will these NPCs be able to automatically use those tools as needed after the encounter?
I am not against it but I think it there's a lot more to it that moving a Judge to a location and attacking. If that was all it did, I wouldn't want it personally!
By Grey0 at Apr 2, 2024 10:58 AM
The talk is about fighting players.
When there's ACTIVE combat, make them target the AGGRESSOR.
Someone in the crowd likely called the WJF.
"Yo, this dude in a shroud jumped someone!"
Make them target the dude in the shroud. Lethal force to break up fights, as it always has been handled.
By Bruhlicious at Apr 2, 2024 11:00 AM
They are already responding but if I recall correctly a delay was added, because it's not themely for a city of 80 million that's supposedly ultra dangerous to have response times of 10 seconds. Judges aren't gonna get to all crimes all the time and that's okay.
By villa at Apr 2, 2024 11:01 AM
Agreeing with Grey, but pretty much against it myself. There seems to be enough ways to get caught after a crime is committed, and if someone is really abusing this they should probably be punished OOC for it.
By Grig at Apr 2, 2024 11:01 AM
Probably the simplest decent option would be to just detain anyone involved in the combat and put them somewhere until staff or a PC judge can take over, but that has the issue of removing players from roleplay which kinda sucks.
By Emily at Apr 2, 2024 11:02 AM
To borrow from the way another MUD handles this, they could attempt to grapple the target and send them to a cell where they'd await judgement from a player Judge once they're available- and then resort to lethal force if this grapple attempt was resisted. The MUD in question employed a 'nosave arrest' feature to let you choose to automatically accept subdues from guards, or otherwise attempt to resist.
By Leudo at Apr 2, 2024 11:02 AM
No. Kill whoever is accused of starting the fight is not the way it's always been handled and surely not the way it should be handled in my mind. There are plenty of times when the person attacking will get and should the Judge's support. Accusations only hold as much weight as the person making them. Even if seen, there are cases where the Judge should support the aggressor.
By Grey0 at Apr 2, 2024 11:04 AM
AI was added to WJF NPCs a couple years ago by a former coder.
I don't think anything needs to be done with the WJF NPCs beyond what's already there, maybe. Except doing something about grapples in front of appropriate NPCs across the board and across all sectors that I've advocated for.
I think the larger portion of the conversation is honestly just one of changing the culture and about cooperative competition.
By crashdown at Apr 2, 2024 11:04 AM
Maybe I'm just uninformed, but I've never seen WJF NPCs automatically respond to anything, even combat right in front of them.
By Emily at Apr 2, 2024 11:06 AM
If AI was added to WJF NPCs, then it's clearly not working.
There's been a couple of situations in recent times where combat occured on a topsite sector with no staff/player judges around and they literally went on for a good, long while.(Sometimes even nearby a judge NPC) Nothing happened. No NPC moved, at all.
By Bruhlicious at Apr 2, 2024 11:07 AM
The detain everyone isn't a terrible idea but the decision tree that would need to be coded would be pretty intense and likely buggy. Think about walking into a fight and all the decisions and commands you would have to make to effectively detain them? Then to move them to lockup? All the many, many ways resistance would look like.
However, if it's as Villa says then, it might be this is already a thing!
By Grey0 at Apr 2, 2024 11:07 AM
It works. It's just not going to be in every situation you think it might.
I'm not sure it can be more advanced than it is right now. which is why I think overall the problem is one of changing culture and embracing cooperative competition.
By crashdown at Apr 2, 2024 11:09 AM
Violent street crimes on Gold got dropped from XHELP approval to encourage players to engage in hostile actions and conflicts on Gold and make the sector more dangerous, it's good to see players doing it if anything.
By 0x1mm at Apr 2, 2024 11:24 AM
I don't think anyone is waiting until staff falls asleep to stuff topside, that's a really bad faith assumption. Some of you guys have really odd schedules so it's only normal that characters pursuing you are gonna have to adapt to that, lol. It's really hard to get someone during normal hours if they for example live in Europe or something.
Not a good idea to make it harder for crime on Gold to happen though, it's very difficult as is and it doesn't take into consideration that some topside targets are already reinforced by other players, a bunch who are equipped to help themselves very well. Add more judges on top of that and most of the time how do you even do anything?
By Necronex666 at Apr 2, 2024 12:49 PM
Judge AI was added and there are multiple factors going into determining who gets shot if a fight breaks out. It's not black and white as aggressors being wrong. Sometimes a corpie can start a fight and the Judge will shoot the mixer, as far as I remember it being explained. However, whether judges will path to a fight in progress, I do not know. But if there is a fight in front of them and they aren't intervening, that is an @bug as far as I am aware.
By batko at Apr 2, 2024 1:56 PM
Yeah at this point I wouldn't be surprised if that entire system just doesn't work now.
By Emily at Apr 2, 2024 1:58 PM
I agree with 0x1 (a first for me, I know;)) and NecroNex. Topside crime is difficult enough to pursue. If you think someone is meta gaming and “waiting for staff to be asleep” then you can xhelp about it.
By svetlana at Apr 2, 2024 3:34 PM
