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Tire Chalk
Write temporary messages and mark tires!

Would it be possible to have tire chalk added to the game? This would enable writing temporary messages on say doors (I know where you live chummer!), as well as marking tires to see if a vehicle moves.
Why not spray paint?
Tire chalk wouldn't require solvent to remove, but would be cheaper. Also, I don't think you can spray paint a tire to see if it has moved. I could be wrong.
I'm saying for writing on doors. Rather redundant.

There are also ways to check a vehicles' movements already too, involving more RP, so that's somewhat redundant as well.

I don't want to know -where- a vehicle has gone, just if it has moved at recently. Again, less certainty, for a lower price. Tiers of intelligence gather sorta thing, ya know?
I didn't say where. I'm saying if it has at all.

And as with anything else in the game, "lower cost intelligence gathering" comes in the form of RP, not objects.

-1

See HolyChrome's comments.

I'm gonna say this is a +1 for me.

And to counter HolyChrome's point a bit, I'll point out that, chalking someones tires, is in a way driving RP of a sort. And could lead to a few differing scenarios. Almost all of which derive more RP than the current setup for the players.

And also, the methods at current to tell if a vehicle has left it's location are rather, out of view, so as to be utterly insane to think most people would know about it... Or otherwise convoluted, and also generally involving staff.

As a question, logically speaking, in a world where the tools of IRL are open too us. If I want'd to covertly monitor what I suspect is a rarely used vehicle, would I approach a nearby gang member and ask them, "Hey violent territorial criminal, about how often does the owner move that thing?" Or would I simply grab a piece of chalk and tap the tire with it and move away? Further, would the staff take the time to warn bitches that Lucy Limeponcho was poking around about their ride? Where does the chain of involvement end for staff in this case?

Adding chalk would allow that sort of monitoring of vehicles, as well as potentially, some low level forensics play... Which is rather needed. As forensics is in my opinion, after Decking and Rigging, the skill with the least amount of useful applications without staff involvement.

Other Applications for chalk ramble here: As it is, IMO spraypaint code's backbone needs a good revamp anyway, as currently EVERY piece of spray paint created by everyone generates a message that EVERY member of staff has to read. I'd say if they do, do that revamp, adding more ways to deface areas and things around and create graffiti would be a good idea. Possibly even having differing grades of defacement, like chalk at tier one basically being washed away next time it rains or the moment solvent is sprayed on it... Spraypaint being tier two, washed away with multiple coats of solvent, and a tier 3 for it being like something that leaves stains or marks for a day or so after solvent is applied. Maybe requiring a special device like a Pressure Washer or some shit to clean fully in one go.

Or you could just watch it.
Yes, monitor a vehicle 24 hours a day, for days on end.

That sounds like fun RP.

That's why you hire people. Thus RP.

A good rule of thumb for any suggestion is "Can this be solved by involving another player?"

If yes, then it's usually not a good idea.

You want someone to hire someone to literally watch a vehicle for 24 hours a day...?

I'm having a lot of trouble following your logic on how that's RP, let alone fun for anyone involved.

Here's a good rule of thumb, if it's not fun for the people involved, make a way top eliminate it so that the players can focus on fun.

Quick question,

Why would adding chalk exclude the possibility of me hiring people to monitor that chalk?

A good rule of thumb for a bad idea, is, "Is doing this tedious?"

If yes, you've found a bad idea.

I'd +1 this idea or at least some alternative method to check if a vehicle has moved recently using investigation skills.

> inspect vehicle

>> Vehicle is tiny, weight 592lbs, is roughly worth 2000000chyen and has possibly recently moved.

I dunno, I like it or at least something that achieves the same outcome. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Exactly mench...

Like a forensics check or something.

Something that's not... The equivalent of having to hire someone who's day job is to sit on sindome and watch a car all day.

That's reasonable, though small stuff like this that you could hire an immy to do, hand em a bottle of tire chalk, and send em on their way...I'm more keen on it being not tied to a skill.

Bonus points in the follow up hiring immies to run around and check the chalk for you.

I understand why you might hold the sentiment that something like this should be streamlined and simplified. But I and other vets can tell you so many of our victories have come from fighting tooth and nail, struggling the entire way. Waiting for hours on end in stakeouts to finally achieve a win is part and parcel to it.

A piece of chalk isn't going to create that dynamic.

Sindome is much more the latter in this comic.

https://i.imgur.com/JIv5lWX.png

I understand why you might hold the sentiment that something like this should be streamlined and simplified. But I and other vets can tell you so many of our victories have come from fighting tooth and nail, struggling the entire way. Waiting for hours on end in stakeouts to finally achieve a win is part and parcel to it.

A piece of chalk isn't going to create that dynamic.

Sindome is much more the latter in this comic.

https://i.imgur.com/JIv5lWX.png

Let me rephrase a few things...

Why would allowing us to have tools to better run stake outs, be a bad thing...

By your logic...

Camera's, Any option for data storage other than letters, graffiti itself, art, clothing, short descs, disguises, gangers not attacking people at random, momento NPC's, all of these things should be removed. Because veterans didn't play with these things, so they are pointless, or not worthy of implementation.

You are arguing the status quo, in a forum about growth.

Wanna know the biggest thing about Dwarf Fortress that I like?

Every half year or so I do a fortress on the newest version... There's always a new system I have to adapt too, some... Make it easier, infinite world gen for example... Some vastly harder... To the point of the majority of people disabling it(Aquifers.) Some a mix of the two(the medical system.)

No, but good job turning what I said into hyperbole.

There are methods. They're not easy. Use them.

"Cameras, any option for data storage other than letters, graffiti itself, art, clothing, short descs, disguises, gangers not attacking people at random, memento NPC's"

None of these could have been solved by hiring other people. Try again.

Yeah, let's not turn this thread into a shit show. Give your feedback on the suggestion and move on. We don't need another 200+ reply thread of people trying to prove their opinion is better.

+1 / -1 / say why / if you have feedback on someone else's comment then leave constructive criticism and then move on.

Good job ignoring about half that post.

But okay... Systems you could solve by hiring other people...

Camera's, could hire people to watch and report for you. Data storage, could hire people to memorize that shit for you. Graffiti, need to represent turf, hire an immy to shout TURKEY TURF every hour of everyday. Want the gangers to stop attacking you at random, get a bigger group of gangers and hire them to defend you. Want more people to wander the streets, hire immy's to wander the streets.

The point of that exercise in hyper over explanation, is to point out, that sometimes new systems are needed. And sometimes, if a system is tedious, we change it.

The ganger system was tedious, so we(The game) changed it. Now joining a gang means RP and character development that doesn't involve dying to hatchetmen a thousand times.

The world didn't feel lived in, so we(The game) changed it and implemented momento's. So now there's people wandering the streets.

Some of that shit was me spit balling out of frustration. The real point here, is that systematically, yes any change needs to be balanced on how much RP it provides... However, HOWEVER, if the RP being provided currently is tedious, there needs to be a change.

Gangs as a system is a good example.

People weren't ganging, so there was a change to allow more people to be gangers, and look at all the RP...

Have you honestly, EVER hired anyone to just watch a door for more than an hour at a time?

Outside of events?

You'd literally be creating a player made job that's WORSE than SHI on a tedium level.

I should refresh before I post.
Sure, Mench. If we can get people to stop writing novels about semantics.
Sure, Mench. If we can get people to stop writing novels about semantics.
I'm just gonna say that as part of my job I definitely did have to stake out a door for longer than an hour.

Because sometimes that's what you gotta do to succeed with your plot :)

This suggestion feels like a "I don't have the patience to stake out vehicles or hire anyone for it so please introduce a mechanic that makes it easier for me".

People have been doing this for years and stakeouts are and have been part of the game. It makes things harder but that is also the point. Sindome is a game of patience after all.

Go install a camera, hire people, stake it out. It's more RP than running to the car and "use tire chalk" and just get it over with.

Effort should be appropriate to the reward. Stalking apartments is massive, especially when done in person opening you a lot of options right away, including option for B&E. Because of that if you want to do it, you have to camp out or hire someone to camp out.

I don't think stalking someones vehicle gives as much upside, so maybe there is some middle ground to be met?

I just had a great idea that could solve all of your problems, using technology already in the game, with minor code tweak age and some fixing of things that also need attention.

Are you ready?

Buckle up.

It's coming. OH SHIT. Let us put bugs on cars. Chalk rinses off in the rain after all.

-1 unnecessary and already covered by current mechanics in ways that are more interesting and interactive.
Also if the idea thread about slapping flyers to a vehicle takes off and the flyers fly off after driving a mile or so, that would have a chance of achieving the same effect.

I hate how I wrote that sentence.

I also think this isn't a matter of if vehicles -have- moved but if they -haven't-.

This would be a tool for vehicle thieves to isolate "unattended" vehicles.

The first case being players who've been away for a bit.

And the second for vehicles that do get "regular use" but it may not be seen all the time, and somewhat meta to assume they've been sitting there. I can think of a few vehicles that don't get moved around mechanically often but very much get used.

Either case, it'd be somewhat meta and small worlding to assume.

HolyChrome brings up a point I want to stress. Please do not meta/smallworld vehicles. For every one you see there are thousands you don't. That parking garage under you place of business is not empty except for the three cars you can codedly interact with. And there is more than one Cricket parked on that street.

I frequently run into situations where players are not taking the big world into consideration. You see a Mono parked at X every time you check for a week? Chances are there are several other monos also there every time you checked.

There has to be a balance of course. We can't bigworld until it's impossible for PCs to interact ac all. But do keep this in mind when 'tracking' vehicles and the like. There are lots more vehicles there then you think. You can't track where all the vehicles are on a given level at a given time. You probably have no reason to get suspicious of half the vehicles you get suspicions about.

Which would be a goid reason to mark that specific vehicle.
Mobius,

Those hundred of other cars can't be stolen, so going into a parking lot and 'chalking' every tire is far less small-world than say, putting a bug on one car, or having someone with a special "kit" to an "investigation" of one car. Tire chalk provides a tool to RP 'weeding out' the vehicles that are of no interest.

This all sounds like a -very- specific need and I also feel like this all comes from trying to avoid risk. If you only want to plot if you know someone isn't going to be mad you're fucking with their car, then what's the point?
Risk/Reward tradeoff is a thing. No one wants to get permed over a cricket, so making it possible to identify some of the low risk low reward vehicles is absolutely useful. When the reward becomes high enough to offset the risk, then the chalk becomes superfluous for that purpose anyway, as you'd likely hit the ride regardless, or perhaps even because of it's ownership.
Actions have consequences.

Someone can and will perm you over a soyanut.

yeah, so spending the time to identify abandoned vehicles as opposed to just boosting everything on a street seems like a perfectly reasonable idea.
So wait, this is about stealing cars? In the future it would be really good to know what the point of an idea is from the outset. This is what I mean when I talk about trying to get to the motive of a suggestion, like, what do we actually want this for?

This is a -1 from me. Stealing vehicles should require appropriate investment of time and risk.

Also, as Mobius said, used in this way it's super small-worldy.

Please explain how it's small worldy?
Directly from Mobius's post:

Please do not meta/smallworld vehicles. For every one you see there are thousands you don't. That parking garage under you place of business is not empty except for the three cars you can codedly interact with. And there is more than one Cricket parked on that street.

I'd suggest re-reading their whole post, actually.

Yes, and my idea was to literally tire chalk every vehicle in an area, which is the opposite of small world. I am 'weeding out' the vehicles that are of no interest.

-not- doing this would be small worldy IMHO.

...so you want to steal cars but avoid IC consequences by targeting only OOCly inactive player's vehicles. Right.

Hell I'd argue putting chalk on it is arguably less small world than simply having it watched...

The difference is,

"Hey Jimmy watch that mono on the corner of Sheep's Hate and Greed"

"There's like ten dozen mono's there, mano."

As opposed to,

"Hey Jimmy, here's a kay, go mark up the tires on Sheep's Hate and Greed. Nother kay if you can find one that ain't moved after a couple days..."

"Aight."

From an OOC perspective, it's better than just leaving them there taking up database space.

From an IC perspective, it's absolutely what a low end car thief would do...

If we are talking doing it for hopefully risk-free stealing rides, then for sure stake it out. The upside is massive, as even cheapest bikes are in 40k ranges, and being able to identify idle ones from non-idle ones should require as much effort as b&e into homes, as the reward is very high.
It's infeasible to mark the tires of every vehicle on the street, and if anyone so much as touched some of them their organs would be removed in creative ways over the course of months. Just because players are offline or otherwise away doesn't give someone IC carte blanche to metagame to isolate them and act with impunity.
For the record, there is multiple IC methods staff deal with for cars left over in the database for reaped characters. I'm not a fan idea, though I don't mind stealing cars from inactive people, but as there's already IC ways this is handled to put those back in rotations, that isn't really a concern IMO.
-1. This sounds like an easy way to figure out which vehicles are owned by inactive players. The targets of your plotting should be people who can RP back at you.
We could probably implement chalking things via the sticker system.
Adding chalk for this one use case would be a lot. Adding it so you could write on walls and stuff and have it degrade over time would be interesting. Chalk that washes away in the rain would be cool.

I do like Mench idea of making it tired to forensics because then you would have an additional use for that skill and possibly need to involve other players.

I don't agree that the solution is always so hire other people, that is definitely ideal in many situations but some things can be tedious in an unfun way and ideas for how to make it more fun are always welcome.