Reset Password
Existing players used to logging in with their character name and moo password must signup for a website account.
- Macraigie 9m
- Shas 29s
- SomeoneLoveable 40s
- himble 15s
- Grey0 38s
- Hivemind 1m
- Mercury 21s
- beandip 3m *DOUBLE* t(0_0t) *DEUUUCE!*
- fopsy 24s
- Dotton 14s
- DiamondNine 2m
- batko 3m
- Archer 10m
- Bonehead 2h
- sinmailer 2m
- ZaCyril 12s
- Ryuzaki4Days 3s
- Bruhlicious 54m
- Paullove 4h
And 15 more hiding and/or disguised
Connect to Sindome @ moo.sindome.org:5555 or just Play Now

Class Conflict
Are 'teams' positive drivers of storytelling?

On the west side of the room several booths line the walls, privacy for the mixers and suits to discuss various points of business.

I've broached this topic many times in the past, and I recognize I am swimming against the current with it, but reading that room description served as a reminder of how this severe mix-corporate divide has not always existed.

Open class warfare has become a major plot focus of the game over the past year especially, and while it may serve to drive player conflicts in the literal sense of creating more combat, I think it's worth discussing (again) what is lost in terms of a fractured playerbase and limits on interesting (and public) long-form roleplay that come from how this divide works right now.

As it stands, corporate characters are attacked on sight when found in the Mix, and mixers can expect hostility or expulsion when entering (now) 'corporate-only' spaces. The push for this state I think is based on wanting to drive more player conflict, but I feel like it has gone too far to the point where public roleplay has been abandoned for 'attack X', and all class nuance has become totally black and white.

The long-standing answer to questioning splitting the already-small playerbase has often been 'mixer-corporate relations still happen, just behind the scenes', and I agree this does happen, but I would argue it's not especially beneficial to the game, and is a lesser form of roleplay that just is not as enjoyable or complex.

Public long-form roleplay is the thing which best showcases Sindome's strength in terms of storytelling. Reducing complex class roleplay to vatting whoever is on the "opposing team's" turf I think is a step in the wrong direction. Pushing for interesting player roleplay to be hidden from the playerbase at large I think is a step in the wrong direction.

I would say that Sindome already has an issue where experienced players involved in interesting plot already have too many reasons to keep what is happening a secret from the larger public, or even from everyone. There is already an issue, I think, with 'combat' being the de facto form of 'conflict' rather than roleplay. I think the 'team deathmatch' class conflict only exacerbates these issues.

I think it would be much more interesting to see corporate characters slumming with mixers in clubs, generating conflict between them naturally, or for service mixers to work more closely with corporations but face issues of discrimination and have social conflict arise from that. I think for class tensions to arise naturally these classes have to actually interact with one another in complex and public ways.

Obviously these kinds of social interactions are basically impossible in the current climate, but I would suggest that at some point in the future it may be worth considering mixing character classes a bit more liberally and publicly, and see if conflict and plots cannot be teased from that melange, because I think it would be beneficial in a public roleplay sense and would also give more players exposure to a wider variety of roleplaying styles and ability.

"Everything which is not forbidden is allowed."

Just curious how you envision the sort of conflict you want to see, versus what the conflict is now. Not trying to dog this post at all, just having a hard time visualizing how this would play out and what it would look like.

I really agree. Obviously, the IC climate prevents this right now, but I think the game's themes would be enhanced by more mixing, and plot and systems could push us more that way. I've always felt like it's strange that the classic cyberpunk story loop of 'corporate Mr. Johnson hires street runners' never really happens on Sindome -- I mean, corpies do hire Mixers for work, but not really until they're no longer powerful enough to be considered 'street-level'.
@Pavane

It does happen, quite a bit. Though fault is to blame with them not happening more on both the people wanting these jobs and the people who give them out not throwing out hooks to make it happen.

I am going to address a small niche problem that such a hyperbole take on divide causes - 'service mixers'.

There's been a lot of effort put into explaining what those do and where those stand, that those are just simple mixers who work topside etc etc. But the fact is, they aren't treated such way most of the time. What the 'service mixers' actually turned into is weird middle of the never-ending battlefield where they are supposed to be hated and discriminated by both sides. Which, in our small community, cuts them off of great deal of interaction. I will argue that playing a service mixer is the most OOCly unfair position you can put yourself in. It's nothing but stress and ultimately boredom with no one to openly interact with aside from smiling and waving.

I really think that it should be more lax at least for the sake of those.

I do miss the older days when there was more mixing with things like Korova or mix side clubs. People going down to slum or see a strip show, more mixing when it came to using mixers for dirty work, and it helped further RP.

I found it also set apart those who worked for the corporations as corporates. They had more money, more resources, and as a result, used that power and caused more RP with it, on all levels.

While I may have had a small view of those times, I did find from a playing standpoint that it helped open up RP. You could still be caught, fired, judged or given other consequences for slumming with mixers, but it had the RP be less binary. There were more grey areas, both for the corporates and the mixers and why they did the RP.

HolyChrome, I've said this before -- I think a core economy loop that generated income for both corpies and Mixers via interaction would do this. Some kind of McGuffin that is needed by a corporate NPC but is acquired from the Mix by Mixers, so that corpies are hiring Mixers to steal encrypted e-notes from SHI or CGH or whatever. I think once that economy loop exists, organic RP will naturally be generated around it.
@Pavane

That loop exists. People just haven't figured it out and/or aren't utilizing it.

I agree with this post. Another frustrating aspect that stems from too much separation is that some Mixers start asking for obscene prices when it comes to the down and dirty. I think it's important to keep in mind that 5,000c is a LOT of money to your average mixer, in most cases that is more if not equal to one week's of pay.

When 20,000c stops being enough to afford to hire people for most things, there is another kind of problem in the game, but that's probably for another topic.

Then it maybe isn't core enough, and it should be described in Surviving Withmore or given to immy aides in their training or something. When I say 'core economic loop', I mean something that's as prominent as the weapons trade or the candy trade, which has more established characters looking for newer characters to flip items for them. My experience has been that that really basic economic interaction always results in a conversation as people wander around the city looking for buyers and then creates a social connection that gets built on for further plots.

If there was a similar 'entry-level' economic interaction between corpies and Mixers where a corpie is SICcing an immy saying 'I need this brought from place X on Red to me at Sing-A-Rong' a few times a day, I think you'd start to see that develop too.

In my, admittedly shorter, experience I definitely experienced what felt like an artifically forced divide that has only solidifed in more very recent moments but had struggled to accurately model reality before.

This also goes beyond the mere 'Service mixer' is a thing, problem, because it is infnitely more stratified.

There is the WCS worker. There is the Hospital Doctor. There is the Ganger. There is the topside barista. Most of all there is the topside lease holder managing a business.

All of these, according to the artificial divide, are the exact same thing, with the exact same social standing both topside and in the mix.

There is actually more difference being made between a Corporate Employee and a MegaCorp employee funnily enough, and that one, given that play is largely contained within Withmore and it's surroundings rather than the International scope where MegaCorps make a real difference, is laughably small compared to the giant spread that exists in 'Service' mixers, and even those just working different jobs or belonging to different factions down in Red.

@Pavane

The system in place is purely through RP and should -not- be described openly.

I'm really against any more automated ways of income, especially with things like this.

I will preface by saying that when I was a newer player this was more or less the status quo and Mixers hung out with Corpies in Green in such grossly public ways (sharing bedrooms, SIC keys, being best friends forever) that it was considered the "norm" in a way that blurred the divide completely.

To understand why things are so openly aggressive today, look at the theme. The Mix is a slum, it's not just a slum. It's a super slum. Think of the world's worst slum, make it worse, and put ten times the density of Manila in it. And all because of the corpies. The corpies stole your future, your money, your freedom, while laughing as they shower in heaps of flash... who in their right mind would let one of them come clubbing in Red?

Or, if you're a Mixer, like millions of others starving to death, trying to get money together for rent. WHY WOULD YOU NOT attack that Corpie on sight so you can take their clothes and sell it for 20% of retail so you have something to eat?

Can you imagine walking down Detroir, Baltimore, or Your-Average-Shithole-Neighborhood wearing a crisp suit and carrying your fancy expensive gadgets and not knowing you have a 1/2 chance of getting jumped (amplify these odds in an extremely downtrodden CP ambient).

Now conversely, try walking down an expensive, upscale neighborhood, or walking into a fancy shop or restaurant while smelling, covered in filth and grim, and let's see how long you stand without being accosted by security or cops.

What stands these two apart is the status they have with a corporation because corporations rule it all. This is part of the theme and something I would personally never like to see changed.

@HolyChrome

I think the automated income cap does a good job of making people search for income via RP, but it's been my experience that the quest to use it to make money drives social connections. The longer I am on the game the less automated income matters to me, but I think things about our RP habits are set up early in the game where those automated systems create habits. In general, I don't think there should be a way to make MORE money via automated income, but I think there should be more ways to make it.

I'm fine with either end of the spectrum (Mixer v Corpie death battles or something more relaxed) honestly, as both have valid reasons and a plethora of good RP hooks. But as it is the class conflict feels very schizophrenic and inconsistent at the moment, waffling from opposing sides lynching each other to 'wink-wink-nudge-nudge'ing on public discourse.

It's extremely jarring and doesn't seem to line up with what the narrative is supposed to be.

I would say this is part of the 'black and white' issue I mentioned, Villa. A lot of the mix is a slum, but not all of it. "Mixer" encompasses a wide, wide variety of socio-encominc sub-classes, some of whom are very affluent, just as "Corporate" encompasses everything from semi-immortal trillionaire CEOs to struggling wage-slave.

The room descriptions themselves illustrate a different society than the one you describe, so I am not sure if it's correct to say 'this is the theme, period'.

@Pavane

If I had my way, I'd get rid of all automated jobs in general, making them all revolve around RP, so I may not be the best person to take a stance on this.

@pfh

That's simply the ebb and flow of plot. Staff will tweak things, as they need to see fit, whether due to trends they want to see changed or to create a spark for RP. Things, currently, are part of a pendulum swing and I'm glad to see it played off of in plot.

Relaxing the Divide only serves to make the game easier, provide less drive for conflict and secrecy and provides more permission for people to avoid the harsh elements of the theme and roleplay only to a comfort level that leaves them... Well, safe and comfortable. Back when things mixed more, Mixers and corpies pretty much were openly friends and lovers, there was no reason for anyone not to go anywhere and it was honestly really stupid. Things are fine as they are and serve to make the game gritty and cyberpunky.
@0x01mm

All of the Mix is a slum...

OP makes a valid argument for expanding inter-class relations to more believable levels. Realistically-speaking, there should always be drama and intrigue. However, there will always be segments of any class who are less prone to observe the, ah, "restrictions" on social exchange. At the moment we can assume this happens, sure - but can WE as players take part in a healthy and meaningful manner?

Would be -great- to foster more opportunities for the player base while making Withmore feel less like a two-dimensional 20th century analog and more like a true, organic society. Remember, every real-world society has overwhelmingly shown that people are willing to cross those lines for myriad reasons - at times with great sacrifice involved - and far more often than any admit. Its basic human nature.

The sociopolitical paradigm is simple enough. While the overwhelming majority would, if asked, publicly condemn the other social class wholesale... It stands to reason that anything from romance to economic exchange constantly flares on the individual level.

Having a place, or places, where people "look the other way" would be great. Even modern warzones have these, where enemy combatants will seek entertainment and mostly just pretend they never saw each other. Why? Because then both sides miss out, and everyone ends up equally pissed.

Just some food for thought.

@Villa

In the grand sense perhaps, but in terms of the room-to-room descriptions there are a variety of places representative of different economic states. There are more upscale businesses (some of which describe "suits" being present as my first excerpt shows) and residences which range from literal trash-strewn shacks to very elaborate indeed.

The vast majority of mixers by population are underprivileged wretches ground under the heel of society and left with nothing, but that's not representative of the player-character reality by any means. Nor is it representative of the society described topside where there is clearly a significant population of service mixers which intermingle in corporate society to at least some degree.

Villa, while you make a good point, these things -actually happen-. I live in one of America's murder capitols - with well-documented outright racial warfare and clear-cut socioeconomic delineation between neighborhoods. Even so I still see the wealthy slumming, and the poor trying to set foot into a better life. I'm literally the product of what happens when a wealthy white man falls in love with a brown immigrant stripper he met at a party.

When there's profit or romance involved, lines blur -real- quick.

How do you envision the same stakes, desperation and class theme existing in the game where every Mixer can head up to Green and hang out with their ace kool Joe ViriiSoma?

It's a struggle to get people to role-play out the hardships of the theme and to put themselves in a place of poverty and starvation. Given the choice to eat nice food, wear nice clothes and fuck around with whoever they want, the path of least resistance is to do that instead of roleplaying out a dystopia.

Kiwi, that can easily be locked behind a sort of 'paywall'.

Ie: You need to be dressed well enough, -and- pay an entry fee that qualifies as a significant investment for a Mixer's night out.

Perhaps better as a "special event" than a day-to-day occurrence.

Agreeing with Kiwi on the struggle to get Mixers to even play the Mix as is.

People prefer to play the Mix, in my experience, because it's where more (tangible) things regularly happen, while still wanting all the amenities of topside. Opening up the doors for no class divide would mean even less corporate players imo.

You can't have your Mixer cake and be a dietitian who suggests nutrient density powerfoods like kale in their jacuzzi too.

Starving slumrats taking a shower, slipping on a nice dress and going to sip cocktails with the corporates doesn't really make a lot of sense. There are places that permit Mixers and ways to get around the Divide. Find out more IC.
HolyChrome, class divide should -definitely- remain. Its a logical facet of any society. Especially in the cyberpunk klepto-corporatocratic versus underheel-slummer theme.

The argument is to make it more realistic. Real life is more dynamic than "you're poor so you'll never save up for months to buy a nice suit or dress because you've always wanted to know what it'd be like to go to that one amazing place you see on the vee and maybe even meet a cute guy."

Cue either being publicly humiliated, getting lucky and making a friend across the social divide, or both.

Realistic actions get realistic results.

In my experience, don't expect the playerbase to appreciate the nuances of your arc. I'm not really sure what kind of scenes you're really expecting here.

HolyChrome, that was an arbitrary example and has nothing to do with my character's story arc. Quite the opposite, actually.

I'm not arguing for expanded class interaction on my own behalf, but for a more interesting and dynamic environment for us all - while citing examples of how this has real-world contemporary and historical societal parallels.

If that's not something the GM's feel fits the theme, then that's quite alright. Its their prerogative.

Wasn't assuming you'd share IC info on the forums.

What I was saying was that plot, generally, isn't as dramatic a narrative from the outside looking in. GMs have and will tailor things to you specifically during plots. In fact, they can be outright genius bastards in knowing how to fuck with you.

My point is that these things do happen, but I wouldn't expect plot that say... delves into deep character history. Or begging some grand ethical question. It's usually "one size fits all" to reach the widest amount of players.

The places you'll find those sorts of interactions most are with other players in more private settings. It does entirely fit the theme... in bits and pieces.

You guys can discuss this all you want but if wealthy corpie #237 comes down to the slums for some fun and I'm starving mixer #18,381 wanting to get some flash, I'll beat that baka until his gear is my gear. Theme is as simple as that and there aren't force fields preventing corpies going to Red, just consequences to their actions, and how opportunities can be exploited to a character's benefit.
HolyChrome,

Aye. In my short time here, its been quite a lively experience full of complex politics, social clashes, and ethical dilemmas. A damn fine job y'all are doing; players and GM's alike.

I feel as if people commenting on this thread might be uninformed on the current state of the game.

There is a disgusting amount of class interaction and conflict going on right now. From my perspectives, it certainly seems like every Tom, Dick and Harry in the mix are working on the DL for topside assets while publicly screaming about 'death to carpiezzz!' on the public networks.

Expecting suits to hang out in a mix club seems like a place that SD is not ever going to return to. I'm imagining that this was more of the thing in the past when there wasn't enough players to form literal pitchfork and torch-bearing mobs. Going forwards, I can't see this happening. Now, if we wanted to discuss people rubbing elbows on gold, that's again, already a thing, it's just not happening publicly. And we have all the tools at our disposal to start holding player-driven events at neutral locations on Gold- it's just that given the themely class divide, nobody wants to be seen schmoozing with dumpster goblins or salarymen.

"There is a disgusting amount of class interaction and conflict going on right now. From my perspectives, it certainly seems like every Tom, Dick and Harry in the mix are working on the DL for topside assets while publicly screaming about 'death to carpiezzz!' on the public networks."

If anything I think this reinforces the point that the conflict as-is is totally artificial and shallow, and that players pay lip-service to it only as much as necessary.

Why is subjective, my feeling is that it's because this Red vs Blue conflict is too far removed from the day-to-day IC player-to-player reality, so real engagement with that theme is not deep.

I've spent a lot of time trying to explain to players that they will be told X but that Y is the actual reality. There's a lot of cognitive dissonance in terms of theme, which is to be expected in a game that has existed so long and seen so many revisions.

I am not being critical of the thematic choices, I think they were made to spur conflict -- I am just personally of the opinion that the actual conflicts that arose are not always great roleplay and sometimes more akin to a competitive shooter game, post-match trash talking and all.

I'm really not trying to set up Socratic method punji pit by asking a genuine question, but what conflicts do people see happening that's limited by the class divide?
I think the Mix being dangerous but not automatically lethal to corporate players would open a lot of interesting interactions, especially between CorpSec and gangs which I feel like is an undertapped conflict grouping outside of specific plots (or suicide attacks).

I think corporate characters specifically having more freedom and privileges would create more class division and conflict naturally.

I don't necessarily feel as strongly about mixers having upwards mobility, I feel like mixers can already kind of go everywhere and do anything as long as they do it well. I do think that the strongest driver of class conflict is direct interaction between classes.

Talented mixers will have more opportunities and often more wealth than corporate characters, so there's not really a lot of points of friction where class resentment can form and drive authentic conflict.

As for anything involving corpie players in the Mix, there's virtually no way to stop the capable and willing players to charge in at them and kill them if their presence is aware. Even if there was a massive culture change, heavy Mixer combatants will swoop in at the chance for relatively consequence free kills on corpies.

Back to the fact it'd be a culture change, the things to enforce it would be even more against theme. Gang leaders telling gangers not to attack people. Judges punishing more people on Red.

I think that currently, there's a lot of avenues for that kind of conflict already, it's just that many players don't know how, aren't willing, or aren't willing to find out how.

In this hypothetical setting, there could be consequences. This type of theme enforcement already exists when corporate players are killed in a public and identifiable way, there's nothing to say this couldn't be expanded in the future.

Would a mix solo risk a corporate assassin appearing in their bedroom one night just to jack a set of ProTek from a junior CorpSec on a night out? Maybe. Maybe not.

I don't think that there is only one way way that the game can be an any deviation in from that will revert to its current form. I wouldn't argue that this, now, is the natural state of the theme, or for that matter that there is only one theme that can drive roleplay and conflict. I think it's worth exploring from time to time whether the way things are now is optimal, or just familiar.

I also think there are a lot of instances of players saying 'people can do X, but don't' and I think it's also worth asking why players are not engaging with the game in a certain way, and questioning if doing things a different way might not spur engagement of the desired kind.

0x1mm wrote: 'mixer-corporate relations still happen, just behind the scenes', and I agree this does happen, but I would argue it's not especially beneficial to the game, and is a lesser form of roleplay that just is not as enjoyable or complex.

That is 100% opinion and taste. Other players are experiencing and richly enjoying this. With world-affecting results.

0x1mm wrote: Obviously these kinds of social interactions are basically impossible in the current climate

That's not even close to obvious to people who are involved in them.

What this entire screed sounds like is, someone wants to learn about other people's plots without risking anything.

(I'm not saying this IS your motivation, I'm saying that's what it sounds like.)

I don't think you're every going to see the kind of public hand holding your asking for. Cyberpunk and Sindome for me has always been about what you do in the shadows. If you're airring out your business in a fashion for all to see - it should probably be misdirection or a ruse. Now, if you want to be a corporate citizen with an assortment of disguises you use to operate in red sector that sounds like a much more feasible way to do the same thing. Are you the player or your character going to hear about it though? No, unless it goes terrible wrong.

That said, the kind of meaningful conflict you're looking for does exist. However, it ebbs and flows. Not because of Staff or game mechanics but because of players. This is 100% the facet of the game the players have most license over. That's right, kids, the secret ingredient is YOU! Unfortunately, most people are more interested in persuing soft targets, quick transactions, and easy narratives rather then digging their teeth into the hard stuff. At best, I've found people fairly easy to rile up and point in a direction but results vary.

If you want change, get out of your cube, fuck your stats, and go get weird. As an oldbie, I think the best things veterans of the game can do is leave breadcrumbs to lore that is out there for newer players to latch onto so staff can pull those strings in ways that are meaningful to the player.

There's a handful of stagnant plots sitting in the open as write this - you want intrigue and meaninful classist conflict go get it.

"Would a mix solo risk a corporate assassin appearing in their bedroom one night just to jack a set of ProTek from a junior CorpSec on a night out?"

These sort of reactions from the world have fallen by the wayside in recent times, keeping things on a player-to-player basis of conflict.

As for why things aren't happening? I'd say it's not a lack of desire, but a lack of knowledge on how to do them properly. I actively try to be such a resource, but it is largely an uphill battle because even in the proper ways of doing things, people are still conflict/risk averse when they have little to no reason to be... Or little to no -real- reason to be.

If mixer-corpie relationships "behind the scenes" aren't as enjoyable or complex, could you suggest some ways that would be better, with concrete examples? Should I go meet Joe Mixer in the middle of Media Gardens and tell him to kill a Mixer for me? Or what's a more acceptable middle ground?
That is 100% opinion and taste. Other players are experiencing and richly enjoying this. With world-affecting results.

It is, which is why I prefaced with "I would argue". However my point is more that hidden RP is nothing like as beneficial to the game as a whole as roleplay which many, or even all, players can engage with in some degree.

I've had extremely deep and rewarding roleplay with one other person, moments that now are lost to literally everyone because no one who was present for them is still around. I'm not saying private RP is worse, but Sindome does encourage a lot of secretive roleplay and I think one of the knock-on effects of that is new players can get a negative impression of nothing much ever happening.

I think public roleplay is a stronger communal storytelling device and I'd like to see it encouraged more than I feel it is, currently.

0x1mm wrote: the Mix being dangerous but not automatically lethal to corporate players would open a lot of interesting interactions, especially between CorpSec and gangs

Once again, obligatory "just because you're not seeing it doesn't mean it's not happening."

Again, this makes it sound like what you want is for the game to enforce the daylighting of other people's secrets with no RP or risk on your part.

I'm done, with an echo of Villa: "Don't fix what isn't broken."

0x1mm,

I've only been here about two weeks, averaging 10-15 hours of daily, so please take my perspective with a grain of salt:

The only issue I've witnessed seems to be isolated waves of hyper-aggression and violence - which includes the suspiciously-meta rash of identical twin immies. This went on for much of last week, though it -did- generate some enjoyable RP interaction and cohesion among the affected.

These tend to occur at a very specific time of day, coinciding with SIC shenanigans and outright trolling. It feels like a product of boredom during times of low population and chatter. I'm all for stirring the shit pot to get things happening, albeit with finesse.

Some of what's happened feels... Artificial. Like it was done out of sheer boredom from a half-concocted excuse of a plot - which points to a deeper problem.

Again, I can't speak for the complex web of interactions that go on behind the scenes. As is logical, if no one sees or hears something... It never happened. All we can go by is what we know, so its on the backs of the plot-handlers to ensure things add up.

Kudos to the folks who throw in anonymous SIC chatter to keep things fresh, interesting, and up-to-date.

I keep finding myself, despite being an immy, having to fill in far more experienced folks who missed the sudden blitz of events that took place within the span of an hour, followed by hours of -nothing-.

I'm not trying to knock the plot or events. Stuff is cool, interesting, and provides a -lot- of follow-up RP. My only critique is that these things would flow better with a dramatic build-up over days/weeks/months, though to be fair I probably just missed a ton of build-up from before I joined.

Again, just an immy with a limited perspective whose lovin' the Withmore experience.

I can't respond to all these hypotheticals and asked scenarios, but I don't think anything I've brought up is unreasonable or would be harmful to the game to consider in the future. I know many long-time veteran players feel protective of what they have grown accustomed to, but change can improve things as well.
To 0x1mm's point, I agree that it's unfortunate that long-form RP is rare to experience. Admittedly there's a lot of data to share practically everyday due to how many things happen daily, and sometimes you really just need to expository that stuff out because it's gonna take 7 paragraphs of dialogue just to retell one event. It gets exhausting after the fourth or fifth retelling.

To the call for more corpie/mixer interaction, there are definitely neutral ground places where there's a blend of corpies and mixers. And they're active. Find out IC.

To the notion of inviting corpies into red without murdering them, corpies go to the mix all the time. You only hear about it when they get caught.

To Pavane's request for entry-level economic interaction between corpies and mixers, I can assure you that many immies / new players regularly cash in topside for a variety of reasons. There's a ton of chy flowing downstream.

Basically, more long-form RP please! I go out of my way to give folks RP, even if it's just to be a huge bitch to them. 😅

Everything that is touched upon in this post is exactly what brought me back to the game.

I took a couple months off to sort out a few important RL obligations (job, kid).

Not surprisingly, I found myself with plenty of free time to dedicate to other activities. And with that free time, I asked myself whether or not I wanted to come back and play here again.

The sense that I have been missing something, the sense that there are major parts of the game that I did not get to experience, while I wouldn't say kept me up at night, they were definitely there, nagging at the back of my mind.

I think @reefer made the comment that YOU (us) as players define what happens in this game. THAT right there really resonates with me. As frustrating as Withmore can be, it is also an amazing place full of potential. There is so much story telling essence just laying about. From the MOO itself, to the minds of the players who inhabit it.

I know that the class conflict is there. I know that there are ways to bridge the divide, and to make the game a richer place for it. I know that the divide is there to be used as a narrative tool.

When I personally look at what "it isn't", I do not see a problem with the way things are. I see my own limitations as a writer, as a storyteller, and even as a leader.

I don't know much, but I do know that this is not the kind of game that is going to be changed by a single person acting alone. Even a group of people will likely only scratch the surface at best. There have been people playing this game for the better part of 20 years. I turned 42 this year, and it still gives me pause to think... "I wasn't even allowed to go out to bars yet, and there were people in Withmore telling stories which have created echoes that are still being heard today."

The divide isn't something that @Slither just pulled out of his ass two months ago and enforced upon the playerbase. It is THE dynamic that has evolved over multiple DECADES of human interaction.
We definitely do not need to relax the class-divide. I remember when I first started playing 4 or so years ago- mixers and corpies would just hang out at Korova, at Sing-A-Rong, even at Grunen's sometimes. Mixers and corpies would date, or share apartments, or have SIC keys together...

That runs against the entire theme. Please. The divide exists for a reason. It doesn't "kill" any roleplay, it just encourages players to be smarter about their roleplay.

On the topic of service mixers...yes, everybody should hate you, that's the point. Corpies hate you because you're still a trash golem and you aren't chic enough to join their clique, mixers hate you because you're selling your soul to service the people that are constantly oppressing you. If anything, I think I would enjoy it a lot more if mixers had to be service mixers for a while before getting the chance to become corporate. Stick it out for a month or two being absolutely dunked on, prove to the corpies you're useful enough to be one of them, or begone back to the slums!
@Hek: Welcome back!! 😁

@Aethertm: Everyone's journey to topside is different. Many do take the service route, and of those, many fall back to the mix or perm out.