Killing off your character
Stop leaving a mess behind

I'm very annoyed. I've been warning people about the dangerous of just willy nilly killing their characters off when things don't go their way or they get bored and want a change for a long time.

Instead of coming up with IC ways to handle a potential direction shift for their character, or perhaps because they are so locked into the character that they can't imagine any situation where their character would ever be able to accomplish their (the players) OOC goal ICly because it would be just so very unthemely for their character.

Yet those same people that are concerned with not breaking the theme of their character give little to no regard for what their characters death will do to the people around them.

What happens to the perpetually helpful character who is always loaning money to new characters? She goes broke because those new characters kill themselves off before she gets back back.

What happens to the manager who spends his days hiring new immigrants who strangely happen to all kill themselves a few weeks into working for him? He gets an IC reputation for being a murderer because of OOC choices that were 100% out of his control.

This is unacceptable. If you are guilty of putting so little thought into the ending of your character that it OOCly effects the IC reputation of another player -- end it now before I become aware of it. You've been warned.

I'm going to presume (though it probably goes without saying) that setting up ICly so that when/if you die things go pearshaped for others ICly is still ok here?

ie; Have someone perm you whilst paying off people to bear false witness about whom the killer is if you have reason to do so?

That or people killing off their characters because they got in an IC situation they don't like.

We are talking about peoples OOC decisions to suicide a few weeks in when they don't like how things are going, effecting other characters IC reputations because it's impossible to ignore a pattern like a bunch of suicides like that or explain it away ICly. Some players making the connection probably really think it's an IC connection.

That's the problem. It's not, but we can't tell them. The solution is for players to stop suiciding characters with zero thought and to instead take the time to RP their character into a situation where they are killed (by gangers perhaps) or just -leave- the city and die in the desert.

Not players ICly plotting against players, which is always welcome.

If someone's just a few weeks in, and they want their character to die for whatever reason, would it be fair for them to request staff assistance with making a 'clean' exit?

Staff doesn't assist with that, its is the players responsibility to find an ic way to die, or as has been mentioned a few times, to icly leave the city and head into the desert and die.

I've been lead to believe on more than one occasion over numerous years that if you wanted to make an appropriate exit staff would be happy to assist. I doubt that'd be appropriate for a character that was a couple of weeks old though, probably only appropriate for a character with a fair amount of history behind them for the admin to work with.

"If someone's just a few weeks in, and they want their character to die for whatever reason, would it be fair for them to request staff assistance with making a 'clean' exit?"

No.

We get this kind of a lot, where players ask for GM help to retire characters because suicide isn't in character for the unwanted one.

I tell players to find a way - use your creativity to put them into a situation where murder is provoked, if that feels more suitable and you can't stand to break character. Or find another way - go out to the Badlands and die of exposure where no characters back in the Dome will ever know, which would preserve perceptions about your character's capacity for suicide. Or find another way - I don't know, "have an accident" or something - there are many hazards which kill the ignorant o a nearly weekly basis. If the character is unwanted, we're not very motivated to help you preserve whatever character-integrity you have for them. Just get rid of them, get over it, and re-roll. You'll never think about it again, I promise.

Well there we go. I like that option too, Linekin. Helps with others RP too.

Stupid html special characters.

@thecraftydragon Players do do that. They ICly tell all their PC buddies, "I'm leaving Withmore because of <new job/vacation/family emergency/arranged marriage/whatever>." and then they xhelp to ask for "Will you <kill me/void me/erase me> now so I can start a new character?"

See above.

I've seen it done. PC makes a reason for their permanent absence from Withmore/the game world, and then makes it happen with no one the wiser (body/bodies never found.). It's not that hard.

Good point. I still don't have a set goal for mine, but that does not keep me from enjoying the game any less.

I agree that suiciding your characters is stupid and a bad response but I think people should be killing there characters.

Killing them to live.

Take bigger risks. Die crazy fuck off gloryful deaths by a million bulletholes knowing no ass was left unfucked and no friend not betrayed. Or be the hero, try to save the city only to come up against the sick twisted murdered who will rightfully destroy you. And hey, sometimes...you might succeed long enough have some crazy bastard ruin your day when you're on top.

I have a feeling that I am at least partly the subject of the original post, since I have two suicides in my history, one of which I maintain to have had IC aspects.

It's my opinion that, while exploring character concepts (especially when you're new), some will fit like a glove and some simply do not fit at all like you thought they would. I disagree that it's possible or IC for every character in this situation to suddenly and dramatically change unless they have some sort of mental illness.

I don't think it an evil thing to want to change it up if you're not having fun with your current character, if you feel that you've seen their story through, or that you've had enough of them and want to try something new. Happens all the time on other games.

That said, I do believe you have a responsibility to tie up any loose ends between yourself or the GMs before you make your exit, by whatever means that may be. It greatly softens the blow and makes the change less difficult for other players.

As an addendum, I don't think suicide as an exit is appropriate for all or even some characters. It'd be preferable for them to have a less inexplicable route of exiting the game than jumping off of a skywalk or roaming out into the desert after effectively lying about heading to another city etc.

Could be something automated, like the vacation packages available, except you never come back once you take the ride out.

There are many ways to achieve permadeath and get your unwanted character out of the way for a re-roll which don't look like or roleplay like an IC suicide.

Slither's post wasn't about re-rolling.

It was about being irresponsible to your previous character's RP mates.

I would like to know why GM haa not stepped in to deal with the in game nonsense that has occurred due to these people performing nonsense suicides. It is affecting an IG character that probably has nothing at ALL to do with this.

Yes but even Slither posted:

"Yet those same people that are concerned with not breaking the theme of their character give little to no regard for what their characters death will do to the people around them.

What happens to the perpetually helpful character who is always loaning money to new characters? She goes broke because those new characters kill themselves off before she gets back back.

What happens to the manager who spends his days hiring new immigrants who strangely happen to all kill themselves a few weeks into working for him? [Emphasis]He gets an IC reputation for being a murderer because of OOC choices that were 100% out of his control.[Emphasis]"

But I am still seeing this nonsense of this one player being accused and treated like some murderer.

If this is part of a Plot okay cool I can roll with it. But if it is not then this is a bit unfair to that player because he/she is being affected by people who are killing themselves willy nilly.

If it was plot related I can work with it. But if its caused by irresponsible gamers who just want to kill off their character without consequence why should the other person -pay- the consequences of these frivolous acts and -not- them pay for these frivolous acts?

That's why this post was made to prevent it from happening in the future. What's happened has happened. We roll with what we have.

"Everything you want to accomplish becomes an IC effort they are not inclined to help push along."

The only person pushing your IC efforts along is you, the player - GMs don't push any player's IC progress along. We play things as they lie and step in when support is needed to make the current or the next step of a goal which has been ICly achieved happen, or to provide an avenue for progress when it's impossible for PCs to do so and it's themely and right for the game.

(I am not speaking to Kuroyama directly, though their comment inspired this response. I'm going to use the pronoun "You", but I'm speaking to everyone following along or finding this in the future and finding out from the BGBB how Sindome works, as I did when I was a new player.)

Here's the thing.

GMs may elect to make the IC world do things which support your IC efforts if you're playing smart and ICly earning next-steps along your path which can't be achieved with your own roleplay with PCs alone. Understand this: A hell, hell hell of a lot of everything in the game is earned off other players, not off GMs handing out prizes. We're here to support your roleplaying so that it results in MORE and cooler roleplaying, for yourself and others. We're not here to give away cupcakes and sprinkle win-points on them when you ask for it enough and jump through the hoops you think we want you to.

GMs won't elect to do anything for you if the things you @note and xhelp about are only asking for things which you didn't ICly spend effort chasing and/or which wouldn't yield ANY benefit to your roleplay with others or any benefits to the opportunities for others to roleplay based on what the handout would do to your character's progress, achievements, acquisitions or position.

(I know what some of you are thinking. "xhelp Hi, have <someNPC> <give/make/show> me a <clue/position/loot> please because I GUARANTEE you I will use it to make <jobs/conflicts/capers> for <group/faction/individuals> and enhance the game for everyone as soon as I get that!" No. Show it, don't tell it. Prove you can enhance the game with your roleplay first, then ask for the thing you NEED to keep going in that direction.)

This is the reason GMs won't help anyone end their character. If you're not shrewd enough to roleplay your character's exit from the game in a way you're personally satisfied with as a matter of theme or trueness to that old character's constitution, makeup and story, AND in a way which is OOCly thoughtful to what the result of this absence will do to other players ICly and OOCly, then you're probably not shrewd enough to roleplay your new character in a way which we would spend effort to hurry along into the game world.

We're not here to help you STOP roleplaying, and, if you're that half-assed, thoughtless and negligent with the way you end your unwanted character, then the idea of helping you to hurry to START roleplaying someone else looks just stupid, doesn't it.

Again. My use of the pronoun "you" here is not aimed at any specific player. I'm explaining the GM thought process in general because a whole bunch of different uncertainties, questions and misperceptions have been raised above and over xhelp.

It's true, though. If you cause someone else's roleplaying to be FUCKED UP because of your OOC neediness/attitude/laziness, it's about the worst thing you can do to a player and to the game.

It's abominable how much IC activity there has been over a series of unrelated but unfortunately similar OOC acts. If you want to stop playing, or stop playing a given character, it should happen in a way which Withmore barely even notices, if at all.

Let's not forget the most basic, easy, option here.

There's 60 million people in Withmore. It is 100% themely to just 'dissapear into the mix' or'Dissapear into the populace of green'

Keep in mind that this problem is not going to 'go away'. We have new players joining all the time and if we continue to grow this will continue to be something we have to focus our energies on.

What are some ways player or admin can help alleviate this issue in the short or long term?

Example of a great suicide (in my opinion)

You spend months working your way up your chosen career ladder, lets go with corpie. And once there, you realize the top is a lot more stressful then you think, so you start taking drugs to get over the stress. Over the next couple of months the addiction takes hold, strongly, effecting all parts of your life. Your friends start avoiding you, and your work fires you. So you stay in your home, using your saving on drugs and survival until finally you find yourself, pennyless, and smelling of stale urine in a mix alley. In a fit of depression you grab your old butterfly knife and begin sawing the dull blade over your wrist, determined to do whatever it takes to make the pain stop.

"What are some ways player or admin can help alleviate this issue in the short or long term?"

Three ways.

1 - As someone else mentioned, entries in @newbie and @rules about "What if I want a new character?"

2 - Players policing each other. Set the example, don't start this shit. Stall the momentum of someone else's accusations when another character reacts to what's probably a pretty obvious self-inflicted permadeath by a very young character (this problem NEVER occurs around characters more than about six weeks old, and it's usually quite a bit less than that).

3 - GMs reacting (when we become aware it's happening.) This subject deserves a post all its own so I'll keep this one concise and follow up with another. Actually - now that I think about it, I'm going to keep it off BGBB and circulate ideas among the GMs for now.

Players:

Don't feed this fire. This is a situation where some of you are feeling like your character can't help but react a certain way to IC events, but, when you as a player smell a re-roll suicide (it's really not fucking hard), and you allow your character to do this, you're CONTRIVING drama out of nothing.

Get over your need to find conflicts or ways for your character to "score points" if one of these obvious re-roll suicides looks like something your character can use against another. There's enough fuel for roleplaying that you don't need to take advantage of meta events like this. Want more fuel? Make it yourself, ICly, don't take advantage of another player's vulnerability to accusation and another player's metasuicide.

Withmore should have some kind of statistic on Immigrant suicides.

Those two things Vetra is what I am talking about.

Players pushing this 'intrigue' when we they are aware that this whole situation is one big meta fuckup.

GM's doing something because this is getting ridiculously out of hand by now and its just making other character pay unfairly for the frivolous acts of some. Hence they are getting meta fucked out of this meta fuckup.

While I don't think suicide is good for the game. I think it's important we as players and the GM staff remain dynamic in there ability to support other players decisions. The ability for SD to change so spontaneously on the fly is what I think is strong factor that separates it from most games - why would we deny ourselves an unpredictable curveball like suicide? Could it be done better? Of course but I think we should take the opportunity it presents.

"But what about the corpie who hires newbie?"

He learned to better vet out his hires and possibly find work that separates himself from them should they decide to kill themselves.

"But what about all the plot's going on?"

Shit happens. Some of the best plots I've ever seen have involved short lives characters who fucked a horrendous amount of stuff up.

I think you guys are getting a little too soft. People die. People get permed. If you spend your time trying to make these things happen in constantly convenient and choreographed fashion - you're denying yourself some of the fun of Sindome.

Roll with the punches - let shit hit the fan

While I am generally the first person to echo sentiment like yours Reefer. Not in this case. And it's simply because 'rerolls' shouldn't cost other people there hard earned rp. Plain and simple. Just because soemone else decided to end there guy before there N is even removed, why should other players RP suffer?

I'm all for staging your suicide to look like someones murder. i'm all for doing that, and having your clone cry foul. I'm all for suicide after a nice long personal plot that I don't see, where you have a downwards spiral.

I'm not for suiciding for a reroll. Ever. You want a reroll, move your pc from withmore, and reroll. You don't have to kill yourself. personally, I'de like to see reroll suicides get a temp ban.

I am in the same position as nihilist, I believe, or nearly so. I mostly play MUSH/MUX codebase games, and run one of my own on MUSH. They're also oriented completely around role-play, but they don't tend to take the departure of characters nearly as seriously as SD does.

My biggest problem is that it takes me a while to hit on that character who suits me just so. Although people can say 'just raise the skills you need' and dismiss it, that takes quite a long time. More problematic is the fact that it may not at all fit your character or history. That's where recreation becomes attractive, especially if I see the problem early on. If I know X doesn't click for me and I'm having no fun, but I've seen Y played and find it very attractive, I'll want to make the change.

I don't have these thoughts as a way of avoiding conflict or plot issues. I just know what I do and don't like. It's like having a favorite color. You don't know why it's your favorite, it just is. Searching until I find the right character, archetype plus personality, is what has seemed to be a draw for me.

Just wanted to update this with the latest policy. You can use the suicide booths ICly to end your character. That's what we've put them there for. You should still consider the RP and people affected by you leaving the game suddenly, but the booths are a good way to go if you need to.

I find permanent character retirement to be wanting an easy way out and boring to be quite honest.. CP exit is far more fun for everyone. You can write your character a wicked come back in your ships and fanfics. This idea probably won't ever get my support.

The best way to exit the game is loud and without a clone. Collect your grenades, load up on ammo, sharpen your blade once you're without a clone and go after your greatest nemesis, let's say you win, push the envelope more, keep going until you stop winning, never clone, or do clone, maybe you found more passion for your character by living on the edge? It actually happens.

Or suicide, I don't care. But I am not letting you walk off into the sunset, personally. Put some effort into it and give everyone a good show of it or you know, take a break and come back when you've got some interest in being cyberpunk.

Corpies can die quietly in a booth if they lived quietly and have no enemies. We don't really account for those types of characters and you may as well booth if your life has been that mundane. :P

This is cyberpunk dystopia. Can't always have your way, and I see people walking off into the sunset without sacrifice a form of 'winning' and nobody wins at Sindome.

There are no second acts in cyberpunk lives.