Automated Macros
I don't think we need them

I think this system goes against our other rules regarding client side macros, is confusing to use, and honestly, I don't know why we have it and would like to remove it. This would not affect existing not automatic macros. In fact, it might result in us allowing more non automatic macros (raising the cap from 20 to 30 or something).

What I'm looking for with this topic is for people to change my mind (or not). What are your use cases for automatic macros? Why does the game need them? Why would these being removed be a net negative for you or the game?

So fine with me, especially if as a result we can get more macros altogether.

If it opens up further non-auto macro slots for the folks that really like and rely on them, cool.

Maybe if the conveniences folks mentioned above were taken care of, they could go away.

You aren't wrong.

On the other hand, my understanding is that the movement code takes attributes into account. If your character is on the tail of someone who enters a locked door, they should be able to follow them in before the macro fires.

Right?

I have used one for shutting my apartment door in the past, but really if I forget it's on me, so haven't used it in ages.

Can't think of a legit reason for these to exist myself, they just come across as a way to be lazy/careless without suffering consequences to me.

No offence intended to anyone, happy to be enlightened if I'm just being a baka ;)

Without that, unless you have some insane dex advantage you will not be able to sneak in against autolocker, at least in my experience.

I'd like to get the thumbs up from staff first. I'm fairly certain they are legit, as I've had them for months. But I want to be careful.

For example, if we put a two second timer on the closing of doors we just made life hard for a player who is actively playing their character and paying attention and thinking of angles so we can accommodate someone who wants to automate their character.

I would also prefer to only see solutions like this that make sense ICly. Any timers added should be there because it makes sense ICly and not because we have to implement meta solutions to deal with players who want to automate their characters.

While I fully agree that there is no way to 100% identify those who use automation and that people who do this are likely to have already caused trouble by the time they are caught, people are caught a lot more often then not (from what I've seen at least).

It's not hard to notice that someone is doing X and nothing else. Or to pick up on super-human reflexes being displayed on multiple occasions. Once this happens it can be reported to staff who can watch the player even more carefully than we can.

So yes on robust code but no on making life hard on the masses just to accommodate a few bad eggs. The best I think we can hope for is a nice middle ground.

mount bike

start bike

drive

But it is still keyed to something such as ~work.

The only automated one I have is one that sets @lp and @title when I do something specific. It wouldn't be hard to make it a keyed one.

But let's say automated macros are at least borderline necessary if your character is a dedicated pilot in some capacity in the game because of the situation(s) mentioned.

To my mind that instantly screams not a use case argument for automated macros being allowed, but rather a game design flaw that needs to be corrected, probably. That's most likely a discussion for a different thread, but there probably shouldn't be a situation in the game where that happens. If from a game design standpoint the admin DO want a situation where that can potentially happen from one or multiple failed piloting skill checks or whatever leads up to it, there definitely shouldn't be situations where an automated macro would potentially or even certainly save your life / vehicle / job but reasonably fast typing wouldn't.

I think it's kinda ridic that multiple staff members have called color-correcting accessibility QoL triggers that make the game as a whole playable for me -cheating- but apparently GMs are like hey if you stall your Skyfox cab and might die just make a macro bro and sure make one so you never forget to lock your door too BTW our rules say you can't make stuff to play the game for you but do it anyway. :)))))

Macros are for noobs. You're playing a text based game. I also always thought any combat based macro was a no-go. If it's not it should be.

There should probably be a much more earnest and open discussion about what people do (or 'would lol winky) use basic or sophisticated triggers and macros for, because that probably exposes a range of MOO-side design flaws, whether or not those are things that are felt staff feels need to be addressed.

But be clear-minded and earnest. Understand what the game is and what people are intending to get out of it. Realize it's 2019. Spend five minutes with what any M** client developed in the last ten years offers.

(Edited by Johnny at 5:27 pm on 3/5/2020)

This is Johnny's opinion on the matter as well. I've disliked automated macros for a long time and would like to see them gone but I also understand that offering them is our way of providing an interface in the game that we can customize to fit the needs of the game we are building while maintaining our no client side macros policy.

I personally think offering automated macros is just a gateway for people to get frustrated with the lack of scripting we allow and be driven to look for something client side where as if we simply didn't allow automated macros, people wouldn't get the idea in their head that it was possible.

I also think that our community is pretty evenly split with many people playing it as their first or only MUD and thus, only a subset of our community is aware of or inclined towards, client side scripting. I think the folks that are inclined to try to script out interactions within the game using client side macros are going to attempt to do that regardless of if we offer automated macros or not, so I don't think that is a very good argument for having them.

In the end though, Johnny doesn't think they should be removed and has asked me to figure out better ways of implementing automated macros such that they are both more useful and more fair.