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newbie grace
killing robbing stealing

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I understand that this game is violent And I expect to be robbed and or killed many times throughout playing the game. When a person is a newbie there should be at least a one week grace period where they cannot be attacked or robbed by anyone that is over that one week time period in age. it is one thing to have newbies attacking other newbies it is another thing entirely to have well established characters with much better equipment and skills taking advantage of those who have not even had a chance yet to read all the help files or learn the Maps for the zones or even learn where to safely store things. There are a lot of things in this game that can only be learned in character because there are no help files or outside resources to be able to learn them. That learning takes time and by having newbies learn the hard way in their first week or 2 you are far less likely to have People stick around and want to play the game. It would not harm the game in anyway to have a short protection period for new immigrants two Withmore. By the time this could possibly be implemented in code my character certainly would not still be eligible So this post is not for me however, i still strongly believe that it should be looked into for future new players interested in the game. I have no interest in responds about this being a whiny post it is not whining nor do I plan to quit over a few setbacks. This idea could definitely increase the number of new players who decided to stick with this game long term nor would it harm any players that had been playing an extended period of time and if they feel the need to pick on new players that have no ability to defend themselves yet their assholes anyway.
By Knitesilver at Aug 7, 2019 12:06 PM
There is a protection period in place, it just doesn't make you invincible.
By Vera at Aug 7, 2019 12:07 PM
There is a newbie protection as far as I know. Your char can't be killed for a certain amount of time as long as you don't attempt to kill anyone either. Once you make a hostile action, your newbie protection breaks.
By Diani at Aug 7, 2019 12:08 PM
IC knowledge, Gangs grant a grace period of two weeks, unless you piss them off.

Out of character advice: Keep your head down, be polite, don't consider PUBsic friendly territory and you should be fine. Don't act or describe your character in their "final form", grow towards it.

By Qurion2 at Aug 7, 2019 12:09 PM
My advice, which I wish I would have done when I first started playing.. Make your first character a mixer, annoying, get into fights, get robbed, get permed. You will learn a shit ton and your next character will be far better off for it.
By mindkontrol at Aug 7, 2019 12:10 PM
And don't sweat the little stuff. The amount of stuff you lost most likely equates to what someone else would consider a good tip.
By mindkontrol at Aug 7, 2019 12:11 PM
Remember friend, that we are playing a RP focused game, and actions have consequences. There is a new player protection, however, it elapses if you take hostile actions against others. At that point- you are no longer 'a newbie.'

Most of us older players are well aware when we are dealing with fresh characters and new (player) immigrants. However- we have our own RP lives to live, and sometimes that requires certain actions be taken. We do our best to not simply windmill slam people onto the pavement, as it's clearly not fun for us, or for the other party.

And speaking from experience, as someone who often has to deal with new players doing new player things- it is quite frustrating for me personally, as well. I'm here to RP with my peers and to try and teach new players and foster good drama and conflict that's NOT one-sided. Again- not always possible. We have to play our characters as they are.

By TalonCzar at Aug 7, 2019 12:14 PM
I will also point out that as suggested the newbie protection would not protect you, as older players as a general rule do not pray on newbies, mostly because they have nothing worth looting.

I understand that this post arose from being looted while the internet went down, a frustrating experience to which my only advice can be to get online on a mobile phone next time.

By Marleen at Aug 7, 2019 12:14 PM
There is newbie protection. Don’t make the first move. You just bought yourself two weeks.

By Grizzly666 at Aug 7, 2019 12:14 PM
@marleen, right after speaking on the newbie channel about the internet issues I had been working today on getting cash back from larri and starting from 0 and some dickwad came along and beat me down, took my package and my new money I earned today. I have not yet made a single hostile action against anyone nor stolen anything from anyone because I would not want to lose any protection while learning the game. part of being able to succeed in the game is being able to make money so you can do stuff. The ability to make money right off the bat is very limited legally. While I love the concept of the game and would like to be a long term play and probably eventually will, My real life time in hours and minutes spent on the game is important to me to, therefore when I feel like I have wasted almost 24 hours over the last 72 in playing right now, it is extremely frustrating. Great so I can't be killed for 2 weeks ... If I still have nothing because I am not protected from being robbed that is really no help. I am not saying that newbies should get months of protection or even minimum levels and stats worth of protection. A one or Two week time period would hurt no one in the game and make it a lot easier to get a start in the world. Being an immigrant is a lot like being a child and children should have at least a small amount of protection before being thrown out into the wilds. Even goes for people who have been permed since theoretically they should not be using any of their ooc knowledge to benefit a new character so the protection should simply be in place for all newbies. If someone wants to quit after that at least the game has given them a chance to learn.
By Knitesilver at Aug 7, 2019 12:31 PM
You're learning what the game is about right now. Sindome is not fair. And, you did not waste 24 hours, it's not about what you have, it's about playing the game.

Please don't share any IC events OOCly.

By Mirino at Aug 7, 2019 12:34 PM
You are stuck defining your 'progress' in chyen earned and skill points gained. This is a very small part of Sindome. The real goal here is to take part in and help evoke good RP, interesting encounters, good and bad. You will never 'WIN' Sindome. Sure you lost some chyen, but hopefully you learned some lessons, too.
By mindkontrol at Aug 7, 2019 12:35 PM
If the guy just jumped you, out of the blue and started beating you up, that's wrong and you should xhelp. But I imagine that he first asked for the crate and flash, you refused, and then got it beaten out of you.

And it very likely was a guy right around you own age, just that he decided to be aggressive in making money, rather than running their own crates.

By Marleen at Aug 7, 2019 12:35 PM
So go bitch to the gang that runs that turf that there are unpaid muggers running around.

Try to find a pointy stick and kick their fucking ass.

There's not a lot of protection because there shouldn't be. It will get better as you learn the game. Plot your revenge and a way to go forward my dude.

By Seir at Aug 7, 2019 12:36 PM
MIX LYFE
By villa at Aug 7, 2019 12:36 PM
Also an important counterpoint, crates are risk-free, as far as NPCs are concerned. Its free chy for a bit of time. The downside is that some players will then target you as better way to do crates, wait for that mano to run them, and then rob him from his flash.
By Marleen at Aug 7, 2019 12:37 PM
What you're describing is not uncommon. Newbies often get stolen from/pickpocketed early on and they always think it's the end of the world.

It's not. It sucks, but you'll see, in the long scheme of things, that one or two kay is nothing. Talk to people, try and find out who it was. Talk to gangers, they probably beat you on someone's turf. Get someone to escort you or at least run crates with you. There's a lot you can do. Create RP. Find other jobs. Get tougher. Get friends.

Being beaten up and stolen from IS learning. It's trying to teach you to defend yourself, to plan and be aware of dangers, and not just run crates all day without interacting with people.

People with a LOT more money and gear than you lose that daily.

By Sly at Aug 7, 2019 12:38 PM
Congrats on getting robbed!

You've actually gained something very valuable -- an experience to share with other characters. Head to a bar, talk to other characters about it. Get some RP in. Make allies. Get roped into something big. 😁

As others have said, chyen and UE are waaaaaay less valuable than RP in terms of character progression.

There once was a character who got robbed naked three times and shot dead twice in her first week. And because of that she became well-known, had made friends and allies, and soon became a very important piece of the mad machine called Sindome. 😁

By ynk at Aug 7, 2019 1:13 PM
I know this isn't what you want to hear after getting beaten and robbed but learning that you are weak and powerless in an apathetic society is central to every character's early development. This is part of the whole experience. The idea is to take that frustration and desperation and use to to inform your character's RP. Because so much information about Sindome is kept under lock and key, the intention is that you learn about the game and mechanics at the same time that your character is learning about the city and how they, one immigrant among millions, fit into it. The connection between what you learn and what your character learns helps to drive and develop roleplaying.
By Crooknose at Aug 7, 2019 2:06 PM
I 100% understand that crooknose, am almost 50 and have been play D&D since I was u and played cyberpunk 2020 for ten years. That’s what drew me to the game. Also muddled and mooed when they first became available throughout college. I am by no means a newbie at games or rping however I am new to the game just like all other newbies. People don’t start civ vi or diablo on god mode the first day they get .the game. They take time to learn the dynamics of the game. That is what newbies deserve. That is what I am saying. And while backstories and learning experience are cool for role playing, if people are unable to get past the frustration of feeling like their time is wasted in the first few days they are not likely to stay.

By Knitesilver at Aug 7, 2019 2:17 PM
There are easy IC ways that would've drastically reduced impact of what you've done. For example, there are super-friendly lockers at the red that you can use to stash your cash, phone, etc. Then if you get mugged, you've lost pocket change and the crate, which is a hella lot less.

You had to learn it the hard way, happens, but you still have IC recourse - as many suggested here. It's not the end of the story, it's the start of it if you want to make it so. And you won't always win on them, whether you are new or old, so enjoy the ride.

By Marleen at Aug 7, 2019 2:20 PM
Myx lyfe
By Stiza13 at Aug 7, 2019 2:22 PM
Knite, you keep saying you basically 'lost' 24 hours of gameplay. What you are -not- hearing is, that is part of the gameplay. You get beat down, even as a newbie. It happens. Incorporate it into your characters life. Form enemies, make friends, that is Sindome.
By mindkontrol at Aug 7, 2019 2:26 PM
Knite,

Having read what you wrote it is clear that your expectations of what you believe a roleplaying game /should/ be are clouding your willingness to accept what Sindome /is/.

You are not going through anything that anybody else hasn't gone through. We all climbed that hill. Getting beaten down, robbed and taken advantage of is part and parcel of the experience. The ability to overcome that adversity is essential to surviving and thriving in the game.

I killed off my first character in the suicide booth after about a month. Something happened at the time that seemed like a HUGE setback. From my character's IC perspective, it was a huge setback. From my OOC perspective as a player, it made me question if I even wanted to play a game where it was "so easy" to "lose so much".

I decided that I did not want to play the game. After about a week, I decided to come back and have been playing ever since.

Looking back on it from the perspective of having played here for nearly a year now, I realize that it was just a bump in the road.

One of the unique characteristics of Sindome is that it does not follow the well established trope of a "safe starting area". It also does not follow the trope of a linear progression where as a player, your character will be presented with opponents just tough enough to challenge you, but who are ultimately beatable.

You have been playing games for a long time. You have expectations of how they /should/ be. Those expectations are not valid here.

All of the time that you have spent writing these posts in hopes of changing things is time that could have been much better spent roleplaying. Time that could have been spent venting ICly about the trials and tribulations of what your character has been going through. I can guarantee that the large majority of the people who listen to your story will echo the essence of what people are telling you here. "Yup, I went through that shit too. Here are some ways to avoid being taken advantage of."

Despite the coded combat mechanics, Sindome is a ROLEPLAYING game. You have to roleplay right out of the gate (pun intended) in order to survive. Your character has been dropped into a world where "everyone" is more powerful than they are. It's nothing personal against you. We all went through it. We survived because we adapted to the environment and developed relationships with other characters.

Throw away everything you "know" about Cyberpunk 2020, D&D, MUDs and MOOs and all that. Play your character. You've been playing roleplaying games for 30+ years at this point right? This should be simple for you. =)

By Hek at Aug 7, 2019 3:26 PM
Your progress, and your character's, is not measured in money but in the ability to get money. Top level characters die or suffer gargantuan losses just as much as the little guys. It never stops, you just get better at rolling with it.
By Vera at Aug 7, 2019 3:28 PM
@hek. Thank you for the very well thought out response, and as I said this won’t

Be a quitting point for me, I still believe it would be a quitting point for a lot of people though, that’s the point I am trying to make. The learning curve ic is bigger in this game than I have ever seen and that in and of itself could discourage many good players. Perhaps that is on purpose though, maybe the builders do not want the game overcrowded so this whole process weeds out those not willing to learn. Like I said in the beginning this is not meant to be a whining or complaining post, I put in in the ideas post section because I truly believe it has merit, and there would be no way it could get coded in time for it to matter for my current in game character. I definitely have learned lessons from both situations the last 2 days and will take them forward. It still wouldn’t harm the game or mechanics if people had a short amount of time to learn things in game that can’t be learned out of game. Hope to see most of you in game in the future and ofc when I get bad enough or have the allies in game to get revenge on the person who robbed me today then I will take pleasure in it. Until then I will play on. From this point forward I am only going to pay attention to any possible changes made from the suggestion though. Already had enough feedback on how to learn from the experience. Thanks again to all who had thoughtful and useful feedback.

By Knitesilver at Aug 7, 2019 3:46 PM
Knite, your thought process is starting to hit the right notes. Keep at it, learn, grow, live or die. Sindome is very much about being in the moment as well as thinking about the future.
By mindkontrol at Aug 7, 2019 3:48 PM
As an aside:

"If the guy just jumped you, out of the blue and started beating you up, that's wrong and you should xhelp."

Jumping out of the shadows and beating someone down is not against the rules and does not require an xhelp. If someone is going around murder hoboing people a bunch we will notice and xhelp them if we think it needs to be checked, or we will have the gangs respond.

Talk about things like this ICly so the IC world can react accordingly.

By Slither at Aug 9, 2019 2:03 PM
To clarify on newbie protection. It lasts for a week or two as was stated but you can lose it if you steal or attack someone.

Robbing from sleepers is not against the rules, though it can be bad form if you see someone who obviously had connection issues on the street where they would never sleep and steal from them.

We have a disconnection cool down for people who fall asleep on the streets that protects you for a period of time to lessen the amount of people robbed when they have connection issues. It lasts for quite a while and when it's no longer in effect you are fair game. Otherwise, we wouldn't be able to rob anyone, since anyone might just be having internet issues. Definitely jump on a mobile phone and get somewhere safe, or in an emergency ask to be coffined.

By Slither at Aug 9, 2019 2:07 PM
I think the disconnect cooldown pretty well covers the majority of the use cases. We don't want to prevent people from being legitimately robbed if they log out somewhere unsafe. I'm not against further discussion on the length of that cooldown but we should do it in the cooldown thread for consistency.

https://www.sindome.org/bgbb/game-discussion/new-game-features/disconnection-cooldown-248/

By Slither at Aug 10, 2019 7:40 AM
One thing I did pick up on that nobody seems to have responded to is that you mentioned a limit on earnings Kitesilver.

Your earnings from automated jobs can be far outstripped by earnings you can make from other players if you manage to get involved with the right people... Also a good chance that this sort of rp will provide you with the allies (or at least paid muscle) you need to make you someone not worth fucking with for a crate and a few chyen ;)

By UchuUsagi at Aug 10, 2019 10:15 AM
Knitesilver. Sorry :)
By UchuUsagi at Aug 10, 2019 10:16 AM
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