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Prevent UE in Apartments
Incentivize going out.

I had this idea and we were discussing it on OOC-Chat, but I decided I would turn it into a forum post. The idea is two points.

Point one. Prevent UE from being gained in apartments. I'm going to call them apartments, but it really counts any type of location that isn't out and about where groups of people could access. Cubes, apartments, backrooms of stores, Apartments. Locked back areas that everyone part of NLM security can get to? Not an apartment. Basically, if you don't want people spending all day long in the spot because the character can't be accessed, it's an apartment as far as this topic is concerned.

Why? We recently had a survey from admins asking how they could get players out of their apartments. A great way to do it would be to making UE be the reward for leaving. You can still RP in your apartment, absolutely. You just won't get rewarded for being relatively safe while you use that Gomorrah.

Point two Increase the rate at which you earn the maximum 3 UE per day. As it is, it takes a long time to earn all 3. It doesn't take any work at all though. I'm not going to explain how the system is (for all I know, I could be wrong after all). But I also can't see the reason why it should take so long to get the UE. As it is, you could be completely active for over eight hours and not get the 3rd UE yet.

But if you made it so you could gain that UE three times as fast by going out and doing things, even players that don't put in full days can get the UE easily. In as little as two hours. And if they play less than that and want to complain that they can't get the 3 UE, then frankly, I don't care. You get what you put into Sindome really already. This -should- make it less of an annoyance to get them in most cases I think though.

The downsides of all this. I can think of a couple. It might encourage players not to idle in their apartments as much, which could lower our visible player count numbers to be more in line with active player count numbers. Unfortunately, more accurate doesn't look better in this situation.

It might take a lot of work marking all the rooms as No UE.

Ideally, if you went out for 45 minutes and RP'd then went home, you'd get your UE in your home. I don't know the feasibility with the code as it is to allow this to happen though.

There are probably more bad things, but the current system isn't perfect either.

Good things!!

Players have a consistent, day to day reason to get out of their apartments.

Players who have limited time have more chances to get UE in their shorter playing times and can easier compete, statistically, with people that can spend all day. For how much that's worth.

Those trained in Apartment Karate won't get anything. I'm a big fan of that, myself.

There are probably more good things.

The best good thing though, is that if it was implemented, it could probably easily be converted if it turned out to not be very good for the game.

And obviously, none of the numbers are set in stone.

I guess you can't RP discussing private businesses or carrying out private transactions in an apartment, or entertaining guests (Non-sexually, you fucking bakas). Joys as well, they need to earn chyen.

Oh, maybe someone got sensory overload from RPing for hours after hours and need some peace and quest?

Or that person is sick IRL with cancer and is too tired to be dealing with being paranoid and everything.

Or they need to do homework but they also get a RP drive so they RP with their roomies.

'side, apartments aren't the only thing, chum. Drivers can just idle in their invincible moving rooms known as cars and AVs.

*peace and quiet
Oh, forgot to mention one little thing.... you're never safe anywhere, not even your own apartment. You know why? You'll never know if an ace stealth is shadowing you and wind up being in your apartment, waiting to rob you blind.
In the survey I suggested that anyone idle for more than an hour get sent to @ooc.
I'm going to make zero presumptions about how much time how many players spend in or out of their apartmenty areas because I'm not an admin and I have absolutely no idea.

I think OP's idea is coming from a good place and it's coming in good faith. But I don't think it would really change anything. If this is a big enough issue that it's felt to be a legitimate problem vis-a-vis the health of the game, the reason it's happening is bigger and more systemic than a tweak to the UE system is going to change; UE progression is important but it's not -that- important. The connections you make and the moves you make (generally) will give you more power than the rock-paper-scissor leverage of your stats vs. whomever. Sindome will always be a game where you get out of it what you put into it -- ideally, anyway. It doesn't always work that way, but one hopes.

There are a lot of reasons someone might not be leaving their place and engaging in RP very often. Those could be OOC reasons, IC reasons, a blend of both. If a player is burnt out, feels their archetype is boring, feels in a dead-end ICly, is maybe just laying low for IC reasons, is just busy IRL, etc., this change doesn't really spur them into changing their behavior.

I feel like ultimately nothing can change people who stay in their apartments all day except for themselves. But we know who these people are! My solution is, stop roleplaying with them.

I cut off people regularly I notice who seem to just want to have sex and otherwise stay in their place all day. If there's so much of that going on with them and nothing else, I ic'ly suggest they aim for something more and then I cut off contact. I wish more people did this. The player would be offended but they'd get it after a while. The problem really is them!

I think we should also ask why people are staying in their apartments. I didn't realize this was an issue until taking the survey; I mean, I've seen the mantra of 'leave your apartment and go RP', I've seen that alcohol was removed from the grocery store to encourage people going to bars, and obviously it's a significant issue, but what's the cause?

Is it a MOO-sex thing? Are people trying to take advantage of gaining UE while not RPing as much? Is it just that we have different types of players, and some prefer to follow SIC more passively? Is it risk aversion?

Understanding what's incentivizing people to do this seems important in figuring out how to get them out of their places.

I fully agree with you. Understanding is the first step to greater prevention.
For some people its simply a matter of time. I usually have a three-to-five hour window each day where I'm available to actively RP (variable depending how busy I am), while the rest of the time I'm just too distracted to worry about Sindome. I can sit in my apartment while I'm working and such and still be able to check back in every few minutes to see if someone wants to talk to me. Sure I could spend this 'idle' time outside of my apartment so I still gain UE, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who's ever tabbed back into SD to find themselves in the middle of a combat log.

If you wish that people should be penalized for not having a lot of time each day to fully dedicate to Sindome, that's your opinion, but I hope you've considered that the 'idler' might just have a busy life.

Agree with Stepler since I have the same situation.
Sorry, Stelpher. Lol
Many reasons, I try to get out of my apartment everyday as per IC job requirement but sometimes, I just want to chill, talk on SIC, and do my homework after spending hours RPing. I usually @quit when I stop RPing so I won't miss SIC calls, waste admin's time trying to contact my character via @puppet-request, and whatnot.
If you're available 3 to 5 hours to RP in a day, then my proposed change would benefit you by making it easier for you to get UE.

If you're idling and not actively adding to the MOO, then I don't think you deserve UE. The current requirements for getting them are incredibly lax. I think they would still be incredibly lax, but you would be out and about and, with more people out and about (potentially) there would be more chances for people to encounter one another for RP.

As for there being a problem, I can't really say. But I can tell you that if you ever go up to a bartender and ask them where the party is, and they tell you that it's where you're at, and you're the only one there, and there are 40 people online, that chances are you've got a MOO where most of the players are in their apartments.

And finally, specifically about RP that happens behind closed doors. Great. That stuff happens. It can still happen. There's nothing stopping you from RPing in your apartment. But that same shady RP could happen in a seedy backroom somewhere, where someone might overhear you.

And I already said I'm using apartment as a generalized term for 'safe' zone. Locked up cars can also be included as places that could be excluded if they're an issue.

If you're idling and not actively adding to the MOO, then I don't think you deserve UE.

I just want to caution everyone about this attitude, presented in this way/in this context. While it's fine to be zealous and want to get more action happening, it might serve to ask why we're trying to solve this problem. Personally, I have a lot of fun playing Sindome and I've never once thought, 'Where are all the people, why are they hiding in apartments?' I pursue my own goals and agenda, I don't simply wander around the IC world looking for people to interact with or become turned off when I fail to find them.

The reason I'm pointing this out is because I think a lot of people are like Stelpher. Sometimes I'm on mobile, sometimes I'm pre-occupied or multi-tasking, but I still like to play. My point is, let's try not to turn anyone off from the game by going all white-knuckle on it, by apartment-shaming or whatever. Most of the games systems are set up so people can be chill and participate at their own pace.

Yeah preventing UE doesn't seem like the right solution. We joke about apartment karate a lot but I don't know how often it comes up. If I want someone I will go and get them. The game has many many tools for this.

Having more people be out in the world is great but some characters lack the same sort of incentive to go out and about that you yourself might find in your playing.

This solution acts as if people don't idle in public places which is factually wrong. As someone whose character used to spend a lot of time in bars, there are many characters who sit there and don't contribute and/or are actively idle. But in your solution they would get UE over people who are roleplaying in their apartments with other people - and yes, there are people who roleplay in their apartments extensively that don't or aren't just moo-sexing.

There are those of us who are extreme introverts (and yes, being an extreme introvert can and does directly affect one's play style due to a limited amount of energy) and/or suffer from anxiety who on a fair amount of days need to limit contact to a certain amount of time or a number of people. These are the people who are okay with being tertiary characters in the game's broader world and story. Actively choosing to punish them doesn't help the game. No, they aren't always out in the world, but they're usually available if someone wants to roleplay whether it's to have a chat, to play a prank on, provide a service, etc.

All this does, in the end, is punish introverts who still are roleplaying and rewarding serial idlers who will do that anywhere. Tell me, is it worse to walk into a bar with one person or to walk into a bar with five people idling and doing nothing? Because I've done the latter and my character has worked in the latter. It isn't fun, rewarding or encouraging.

Finally, as a game-health request I really wish we as players would stop using the meta phrase Apartment Karate, which doesn't only exist in OOC chat and on the boards but comes up in-game. It's an assumptive meta phrase which I've seen labeled to people who are actively participating in combat in subtler contexts and who also hire trainers to teach them which generates roleplay. It does nothing for the game, in many cases it's based on large assumptions because you don't see what a character is doing and it is a label which is hard to shed.

I think I want to mention that, the way I see it, staffs don't want to use UE as rewards. They're pacers. They're used to represent the progression in a character's competences. They're not rewards. Using UE as good behavior points for RPing just set a bad precedence. You get money and power and reputation from RP. You get UE from existing.
I should add something. The point of this subject revolves around the question on the Staff survey asking how to get players out of their apartment more. This is an idea to help do that in a way that is low maintenance and offers a reason every day to do so.

It's not very important if you like or agree with the idea or not. It's more about if it would work.

If you don't think the idea would work, why? If you do, why? How about ways to improve this idea and make it suck less.

What about alternate ways to get people out and about more?

The idea that UE makes that pivotal difference in Sindome is incorrect. It's a very nice to have.

The idea that sitting in your apartment gaining UE is going to change your SD play style or the results therein is a fallacy.

The players who are successful in SD are out there living/dying or otherwise RPing and making moves. They make chyen, they gain influence, and they move the game forward. In a game with this many active players, I bet most of you know there IC names or aliases...for a reason.

The solution isn't motivating people with or without UE. It's teaching them how to play to theme.

How do you motivate someone to play to theme that won't even leave there cube? Create an experience worthwhile enough for them to feel like they don't have a choice. All the GM plots, UE, and mcguffins in the dome won't create that experience...but never-ending churning mix of player's RP does.

Be the best player you can be and adopt the occasional struggling player/newbie. The rest will follow.

I think that Slither's Video Tutorials touch on an important point. As players we can provide plots for each other. This can be as simple as giving someone a job to do. In my opinion, if you give someone a job to do and empower them to do it (frequently meaning you pay them in some form) they will get out and try and do that job.

So try and give each other work. If your character want's to get something done, try and spread the wealth and involve others. If you don't have the resources, see if you can find someone who does and pull them into you plot.

For some players, the job doesn't even have to be amazing. Scouting. Collecting data. And if you find a player that is completely uninterested in the kind of RP you want to engage in, move on. Cut them out.

I'm not saying that this is easy. I have a hard time plotting as a PC and have literally put myself in the poorhouse several times by giving all my flash to others to do jobs. I haven't mastered the art of parting the well off from their flash. But I still try my damnedest to give the people around me things to do - preferably things that can only be done outside their pad.

I get where you're coming from on wanting to get more people out and about, I just don't think this is the correct measure. Finding out the reason as to why people are staying in their apartments may shed more light on this. I know I would love to be out and about more, but due to RL I have maybe a solid hour during the week and a few small blocks of time on the weekdays. In a game like this, that limited playtime is punishment enough and has caused plenty of re-thinks on how to proceed with such limited time.

Like others have chimed in, you get out of Sindome what you put in and you don't know everyone's circumstances. I'm sure there are plenty of us that simply lack the ability to play as much as we want and punishing them further just doesn't seem like the right steps to take.

My 2 chy, take it as you will.

Personally, I would say just leave them be. Like it's been said over and over, if you want to have a mattress stuffed full of chyen, shiney new toys, chummers getting nervous when you walk into the bar, whatever, you gotta hit the streets/cubicles.

If you don't want, that's cool too. Rent as it is can be pretty steep. People will leave when they can to make the rent. If you want to influence people to leave their apartments it's probably more a deep rooted OOC issue. For example, when my kid comes home from school I might forget to log off right away. I don't have time to chase an almost five year around the house and SD (nor would I want to because I like spending time with her over SD sryz) And sometimes it can be an IC issue like I just got out of the hospital after fifteen samurais tried to behead me in the lev and now I'm healing in bed poppin endo and eatin chicken sandwhiches because I'm not running around the mix/office in a messed up medical condition.

Just move on without 'em. If they want to come out, they'll come out.

Well said, Reefer.
I really don't have anything substantive to add to the discussion about the reduction of UE for people in their apartments or otherwise secure locations that hasn't already been said. For the record I am against the idea for many of the reasons listed.

Why I decided to comment, however, is I have seen a couple of people advocate the cutting of people out of RP.

Seriously? That is how you incentivize someone? What do you do when they "learn their lesson"? Do you re-engage them with RP?

I have been known to do the exact opposite. I obviously can't go into context but I have literally given away all of my RP threads to other people so they could have something to do. -That- is the mentality we should all be taking on. You should never keep an RP thread for yourself, because the player you just cut out for never going outside of his apartment could become the next Seven if only they had a place to start.

Sindome is a huge game with a lot of moving parts. We all know this. You don't have to be the focus of all the parts all the time. You can't take your RL money with you, what makes you think chy is any different? Spend it! Buy something from a fixer. Make someone give you pay data. Corpies and Mixers a like. If you are a manager in a corp? You should be doing nothing but collecting a pay check because you have given your underlings all the rp threads to work. Same goes for gang leaders.

The more powerful your character becomes, the more time you should spend idling in your office.

yeah making UE-altering decisions so those of us who work days can never achieve the UE-cap of those who already got their UE from being idle in their apartments

and can now absolutely curb-stomp the rest of those players in terms of mechanics because they have jobs and lives

genius idea

really

Zumini, I'm clearly not referring to new players. What I'm referring to, are people who know better and they choose to spend their time focusing on moosex. Without going into specifics, it's really obvious when it's *that* type of player around and no, they don't contribute anything to me and no I'm not obligated to try and prove something to them that they should know since they've been here a while.

Clearly I am not talking about everyone. Don't take it so personally.

Supermarket: I didn't take it personally :) If you were the only one who said it, I wouldn't have said anything. I wasn't meaning to target you.

Though I do think we all can do better. This isn't an us and them it's how do we make it better for everyone.

I agree, sitting idling all day isn't helping making things better, and some people don't want our help, some people do. Some people are just so overwhelmed, maybe a little scared? That they just sit in their cube and talk big on SIC. How do we get those people to come out and play? The people who only moosex have probably made their choice.

We cool, yo.

It's like no one pays attention to the fact that you would get UE faster under this new system too. So when you played, even if you can't play for long, you get UE.

But they're also right in the other instance. I don't think any UE should be given to players who aren't doing anything. That includes myself on the days where I'm really not doing anything.

But this is also about the ideas of how to get people out of their apartments. If you're not going to play, nothing is going to get you out. That's fine. I'd prefer you get nothing for your time spent idle.

I also like Reefer's post a lot.

Apologies then Zumini, that's my bad!
I appreciate that you're trying to solve the problem laid out on the survey, alkaline, but I personally find this solution to be a bit intrusive or lets say disproportionate to the problem we're seeking to correct.

Reefer and Supermarket have both hit it right on the head in my opinion; firstly, that if we want people to come out more, we should focus on our own characters and making the game interesting; secondly, that if people just aren't into it, if they're experienced and want to chill in their apartments talking and SICing, that's up to them, it's not anyone's obligation to force them to out or to try to appease whatever they're lacking.

As Reefer also said, going out and playing in the world is its own reward. You can probably make a fortune chilling in your apartment as a corpie and collecting your paychecks, and if that's what you want to do, it's your game. Mixers need to go hustle to earn flash, gear, to network, to get ahead.

And if it IS a corporate issue, but chance, then let's not implement a solution that hits us all equally. For most non-immy characters in the Mix, disguises and careful planning about public appearances and movements can be a fact of life. If most serious planning takes place in secret and behind closed doors, it's for safety and IC realism. No one's going to sit in the Drome and hash out an assassination or go lollygagging down Knife Street so their enemies have a chance to ace them. It's just different cultures.

I'm aware that no one wants to do secret things in public. It's because everyone wants to be safe and risk free.

And... the change doesn't punish players. It punishes people that never leave their apartments, absolutely. It will punish corporate and mixer alike if they just log in to collect UE, or to make a SIC message here or there, or spend their time MOOsexing.

If you log in to have a secret meeting in your apartment, and you never leave at any point during the day, not to set it up, not for anything, then sure. It'll punish you. THe friend you called over wouldn't get punished though because they went out on the streets. They opened themselves up to being seen, followed, killed, stolen from, greeted, or anything else.

But if you get out for an hour or two in a day, it wouldn't punish you at all. If you're one of the players that's always about doing something and hustling, then it won't effect you at all.

Something else that could be added is that if you're directly RPing with another player at some point, via posing at them, emoting with them, to'ing them, then you could get your UE.

Reefers idea is great. Go out, get other players involved. Give them jobs, give them plots, kill them, help them, harass them, give them someone to hate, be their buddy.

Getting out to make yourself available to those players makes it a lot easier for them to involve you.

If someone wants to be a background character, that's really their choice. I'm not sure implementing something like this would have the impact you think it would. More than anything, it'd probably make these players quit, which isn't really an ideal situation for anybody.

And I'm gonna have to agree with Crooknose and give a hard no to forcing people out of their apartments to do their plotting/secret meetings as a reason for implementing this.

If I lay out a nice plan to ace my enemy or complete a contract for a johnson, and the target somehow manages to get the upper hand on me by whatever means- well played, I'll keep it moving. But, I won't be the one to give them that opportunity by plotting out in the open and opening the window for myself to get got. Mix life :D

That's fair. I don't know why I have to keep saying it, but nothing is stopping you from plotting in doors either. Nothing would be stopping you from being in doors and essentially completely safe at all. You just wouldn't get UE. Unless RPing together also caused you to be eligible for UE, as per my last post.

The outcome I see if this would be implemented is a ton of people whining. And some people would leave I think. I think most players would stick it out and see how it actually effected them. I think none of the active players in the game would be effected at all, other than maybe earning UE at different times of the day than they're used to.

And I think the people that stuck around would get out of their apartments to get the UE. Because people want it, and if that's what they have to do to get it, they would do it. I have absolutely no doubt about it. And people would still plot, and people would still die.

And then, people would post their opinions about what they thought about the changes. And it might be positive, it might be negative. And things could be reverted or kept. But even if it was the worst thing in the world, it would just be like any other change in the game. People would get used to it, and it would be normal after a while.

Hey Zumini. I too use the unfortunate phrase 'cut them out.' I'd like to believe that the rest of what I said establishes that I am all about trying to share whatever RP I can. I agree with you when it comes to powerful characters. If I have the means to give out and pay (not just flash) for jobs, I will. And I will offer it to most anyone as long as it makes sense ICly.

But when I toffer to share my RP with someone and they have no interest, then I move on. If this happens consistently, then I stop coming to them for that kind of RP unless I am given reason to think that they have had a change of heart. This is generally an organic, IC process if you stick to your role.

I do, however, believe there can be extreme cases in which I find it acceptable to truly cut someone out. Though even in these extreme cases it tends to be an organic, IC process.

I hope this clears things up!

Honestly.. I don't see the reazon for this idea.

Sometimes, not just player shcedule but character personality comes into play: What if your character is an introvert, what if they are the sort of person who just happens to like to stay home while rping?

I think if this were implemented it would make things unfair.

As for what players -should- be doing, leave it to them. It seems people here are against the idea of authernative playstyles, as in, if you aren't out and about you are playing the game wrong.

I think all playstyles should be accepted. If you want to put your characters in plots, good, power to you. If you just want to make your character stay in the background, fine, more power to you, too.

In the end, I think this idea just makes things unfair.

How about implementing burglary tools so apartments aren't safe instead?
Do you want another tow truck scenario where a single person robs hundreds after hundreds of apartments akin to a person who easily stole cars via a tow truck?
'side, you already can burgle apartments, you just have to be smart about it, I've done it. Others have.
There can be security measures. Booby trapped locks, autoturrets, a shotgun rigged on the door.
+1 Metekillot
People roll max Stealth and endurance with backup medics to patch them up when they get blown away by the shotgun but hey, free shotgun which is worth a lot. Auto turrets don't see them because of their Ace stealth, you get robbed blind in your sleep with no ways of defending yourself because the disguised thief changed their @shortdesc and has high disguise skill so you won't be able to know who did it, not even the security camera will help you.
You can make apartments burgle-able by making it use something like a sledgehammer. It takes a long time to break the door down and makes a lot of noise (attracts a bunch of ganger NPCs, security, or law enforcement). I'd also suggest making it impossible when everyone in the apartment is asleep or @ooc.

It would still probably get run way into the ground though.

I think this is all veering in a direction that's more about adding more and more mechanics rather than changing player behaviour.

Most players want to have memorable RP experiences. That said, if that RP includes a character getting screwed over all the time, it makes IC sense for them to stay in their apartment.

If the player is connected and can only play casually due to RL (work, etc) then it makes sense for them to stay in a relatively safe environment.

If a character is an introvert and does a lot of behind the scenes RP, more power to them. Nothing wrong with that kind of RP in my opinion, it should probably be praised as it's pretty CP.

If I was a GM, I'd be looking at individual cases.

In some cases it could just be a newer character is getting screwed over a lot and they need a bit of help with some kind of sense of accomplishment/novelty to balance it out.

In other cases, an older player could be a bit jaded and lacking inspiration/purpose.

Both of those cases could be solved with either a friendly guidance chat from a GM, or ICly via a puppet or other player who can take the lead and include them.

If I'm looking at this purely as a player, which I am, since I'm not a GM, then I just wouldn't care what other players are doing. If I want to RP with someone, I'll find a way to engage with them in an IC appropriate way.

If I notice other characters having trouble with social skills, I help out by introducing them to others and giving them a reason to interact.

Just my 2 cents.

I think this is all veering in a direction that's more about adding more and more mechanics rather than changing player behaviour.

Most players want to have memorable RP experiences. That said, if that RP includes a character getting screwed over all the time, it makes IC sense for them to stay in their apartment.

If the player is connected and can only play casually due to RL (work, etc) then it makes sense for them to stay in a relatively safe environment.

If a character is an introvert and does a lot of behind the scenes RP, more power to them. Nothing wrong with that kind of RP in my opinion, it should probably be praised as it's pretty CP.

If I was a GM, I'd be looking at individual cases.

In some cases it could just be a newer character is getting screwed over a lot and they need a bit of help with some kind of sense of accomplishment/novelty to balance it out.

In other cases, an older player could be a bit jaded and lacking inspiration/purpose.

Both of those cases could be solved with either a friendly guidance chat from a GM, or ICly via a puppet or other player who can take the lead and include them.

If I'm looking at this purely as a player, which I am, since I'm not a GM, then I just wouldn't care what other players are doing. If I want to RP with someone, I'll find a way to engage with them in an IC appropriate way.

If I notice other characters having trouble with social skills, I help out by introducing them to others and giving them a reason to interact.

Just my 2 cents.

I think this is all veering in a direction that's more about adding more and more mechanics rather than changing player behaviour.

Most players want to have memorable RP experiences. That said, if that RP includes a character getting screwed over all the time, it makes IC sense for them to stay in their apartment.

If the player is connected and can only play casually due to RL (work, etc) then it makes sense for them to stay in a relatively safe environment.

If a character is an introvert and does a lot of behind the scenes RP, more power to them. Nothing wrong with that kind of RP in my opinion, it should probably be praised as it's pretty CP.

If I was a GM, I'd be looking at individual cases.

In some cases it could just be a newer character is getting screwed over a lot and they need a bit of help with some kind of sense of accomplishment/novelty to balance it out.

In other cases, an older player could be a bit jaded and lacking inspiration/purpose.

Both of those cases could be solved with either a friendly guidance chat from a GM, or ICly via a puppet or other player who can take the lead and include them.

If I'm looking at this purely as a player, which I am, since I'm not a GM, then I just wouldn't care what other players are doing. If I want to RP with someone, I'll find a way to engage with them in an IC appropriate way.

If I notice other characters having trouble with social skills, I help out by introducing them to others and giving them a reason to interact.

Just my 2 cents.

That's 6 cents actually :P
I am going to go with the idea that we shouldn't punish players for playing differently than other players do. It's okay to have different playstyles. If you are the quiet, passive player, then you will be naturally be drifted in the direction of other players who play this way. If, contrary to that, you are the outgoing type of player, then you will drift towards outgoing players. It all balances itself out in the end.

Those who prefer to stay in their apartments all day long are missing out (or not? who are we to judge?) all the potential fun cyberpunk roleplay we are all here for. I, for one, am the type of player who immediately leaves their apartment/cube/car/cellar as soon as I log in, but sometimes I'm just too distracted, or maybe my character is sick or going under genetic mutations and cannot go out, or laying low because they are being hunted by the Law/a ferryman/any other potentially deadly enemy. Why should I be punished for it?

A lot of RP goes behind closed doors and it is impossible to distinguish in terms of code and mechanics when is a player doing "nothing cyberpunkish" inside their apartment, from when they are orchestrating your brutal, dramatic death. I think the best thing you could do is automatically send players to @ooc when they are idle for a long period of time, but nothing more should be added for the reasons I explained.

Taken from OOC chat earlier, in hopes that we can stfu and let this thread die already:

[+][OOC-Chat] Staff Kwisatz Haderach: I wish this topic would just die already, tbh.

[+][OOC-Chat] Staff Kwisatz Haderach: You got former GMs posting in that thread suggesting changes as their own ideas that they know we're working on. You've got people acting like dedicated players shouldn't be able to get all their UE, you got people refusing to acknowledge that RP can happen in doors. You got people just generally upset that some people don't have time to venture far or out of their apartment on the daily and you got people who can't stick with a character for more than 3 months wanting other people to not have more UE than them.

[+][OOC-Chat] Staff Kwisatz Haderach: The way I see it, 99% of everyone in that post is wrong.

[+][OOC-Chat] Staff Kwisatz Haderach: The only thing I want to do is a 1 hour idle timer that moves you to @ooc so you're not on SIC, and denied UE for idling.

[+][OOC-Chat] Staff Kwisatz Haderach: I don't really have any motivation to try to encourage players to leave their apartments, we all know those people know what happens when you leave their apartments. This isn't a knowledge gap, they know the RP is out there, they just don't want it.

[+][OOC-Chat] Staff Kwisatz Haderach: It's not like they're doing this out of ignorance like people seem to suggest.

As for the burglarizing: please, no. It's already easy enough to dump a shitload of UE into stealth, wait/shadow your target, sneak past them, and steal everything that's in there. Let's not make apartments worthless. Metekillot, you know this firsthand.
I like some of the ideas in this thread, and wish more people would post helpful ideas about how to get people out of their homes and more involved with the game.

If you don't want to read it, don't read it.

^

Thread is over, time for cat pictures!

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Oops. I have no idea why my message posted three times - sorry about that.
I'm not a huge fan of the get sent to @ooc idea, if only because it would rarely effect me in a way I can completely circumvent by changing my playstyle just slightly in those rare circumstances. And while that is a good idea, it doesn't really do anything to get people out of their homes. It just means they have to hit enter to send an empty line of code to the game once an hour (you can always do more though!)

I think there's possibility in making a good change for getting people out too once Grid 3.0 is out too, if the changes successfully make the Grid more used. I try to attend, or get involved with, most events that are posted up on the grid in some way. And at the very least, it lets me know that some location is most likely going to be a hub for activity at that time.

If more people actively used it, I think more people would actively put their activities up and give more people more reasons to leave.

Hey Folks -

I didn't have time to read this whole thread but I wanted to point out that if you are idle for an hour or more, you do not receive UE. This has always been the case. No one who has been online 23 hours has received any UE for 22 of those hours. You are only granted UE if you are both IC and not idle.

Putting people in @ooc was more about removing them from the game so people didn't try to interact with them and then have to wait around, not realizing the person was 15 hours idle and definitely not going to respond to their messages.

Again, UE is ONLY granted when you are not idle. This has been the case ever since we raised the idle off timeout from 1 hour to 24 hours.

I have updated 'help ue' to reflect this.

-- S

Correction from my last post: No one who has been online 23 hours and IDLE 22 hours, has received any UE for 22 of those hours. You are only granted UE if you are both IC and not idle.