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Space Garbage & Desert Salvage
One man's trash is another man's treasure

Full disclosure: I may not know much about the space or desert at this time. I think an semi-automated system which generates space garbage which has a limited timeline to be salvaged by a space vessel before entering re-entry and landing in the desert.

Space Pirates & Corporate Pioneers could clash to retrieve it and anything missed would land in nearby city limits with its landing marked by a weather event where trackers could seek to find it first.

As to what this salvage offers - I'm not certain. I think that element would require a GM's touch.

+1. Badlands debris would be a cool idea too. Revealed artifacts of the old-times under the shifting sands, revealed every once in a while after strong winds or storms.
I'm down for fighting it out with other groups of scavengers and salvagers in the sweltering badlands right as a dune dragon throws itself at both groups and mauls us all. +1 for desert salvage.
I like the idea, though if this was the case, I think it would be a plot oriented event (example - the SAFE fleet fiasco thing) where something happens and its announced through corporate and other channels to get players involved. Could just have a ship crash or part of a spacestation, has randomized but appropriate for the occasion loot (example - science vessel has lab coats, random science equipment and results, etc) and some kinda story behind it.

Only reason Im against automation is that it takes away the randomness and other events that could occur if it just lands somewhere and people race for it. With a plot, weather could change, raiders could show up, the air in the ship could begin venting, and a host of other things.

I would only do this for the badlands if it was useless other than turning it in to an NPC, and the chyen counted to the income camp so it'd just be an alternative to running crates.

For space.. I'd probably up the income a bit but still cap it even then it'd have to wait until we're able to justify making cheaper and more widely available craft or rigged craft that operate out of a salvation station that's been setup in the debris field around the planet like Cowboy Bebop and the rogue AI satellite episode.

Cap*
+1 this. Automated scavenging system for the Badlands would be pretty great. Get a shovel and find bits from the past that you can sell to specific NPCs for pennies. It would make the whole badlands scavenger/survivor slightly more appealing and could cause some serious RP if you found some stuff that someone else wanted. though most of it would be trash it could just be bits of old tech that some guy in the park buys for like 200 chy a piece. This is something i'd love to do and is super themely in my opinion.
I second Cerb's idea. Would be awesome add to the badlands.
That's it, Cerb pressed my Bebop button. Now I really wanna see this happen.
I dunno if you guys are thinking this through enough. Bandits, raiders, other evil people, creatures, all attracted to the indication of activity in the badlands killing you or worse for your 10K max value of scrap.

Seems like a source of player rage. :P

Automated RP-less income makes me kinda sad.
I think dying for your scrap is how you end up turning characters into Mad max raiders. Aka this would be fucking awesome and would sacrafice my character a hundred times to get my hands on those pretty lil bits of scrap..

As a past player of said badlands induced violence, I again bring up the fact that as a plot piece this would be perfect, but as an automated system, I think it would be like the park dogs on steroids, little bang for frankly little RP buck outside of combat.
Let's flesh it out then.

Badlands:

Trash rains down from space and is visible via weather in badlands. I.E. You see a piece of burning debris falling from the sky to the north. This kinda coincides with other large objects in the desert accordingly.

Once it crashes, a really cool named Mcguffin appears. I.E. Space Blastah Blastah X-2000. The description is cool but always notes. This would only be of value to a high-level space junker. Said junker is a shop that maybe sits right on the highway and is easy to find. Reward is capped and awesome.

IF the Mcguffin is not found in X time. It's covered by sound AKA hidden. This can be influenced by weather accordingly. BUT get this All Mcguffin's have emergency beacons that work with SHI Trackers (Hello suddenly more useful item). So they can be tracked after they're hidden. People with Mcguffin's can now also be tracked...unless the beacon is disabled somehow.

Thoughts?

I think that with the responses seen so far there would be more than a few players scaving it. That brings a whole load of 'Drop that I saw it first' RP and a whole load of 'My Precious' RP too...
I like @ReeferMadness 's idea, though possibly adding an NPC script for a random enemy to be attracted to it as well, as its not guaranteed that other PC's will be looking for the loot as well.

Ex. Mcguffin falls and stuff happens. In X number of minutes, a horde of raiders or a band of scavengers appear on the scene, and will attack anyone else on site.

Also, I think some said Mcguffins should be extremely heavy or unwieldy, requiring time to get them to the place in question, or specialized equipment.

I don't think we want players spending extra time in the badlands chasing down salvage, dying and ending up back in a cloning vat on Gold and then getting mad at us cause they always seem to die. Then you have High UE characters who go out there and do it and succeed, but are away from the RP, dividing the population. At least with space we can make it so there's no place to sleep on FreeSky so you have to go back to Withmore every day and interact with the game.
If it's gonna be a 'Hunger games' Type drop that's not exactly scavenging..it's more a game of hot cake and time trial. I liked the idea of the random scavengable objects..The badlands is dangerous as it is and I think in the current state of the economy there's bound to be folks in the dome going out and scraping through the sand for a broken PC to strip down and chuck into some crazy guy who uses them to build houses or something ridiculous like that. -1 on the hunger games style survival shit. But everyone has opinions.
Maybe it happens on weekly or bi-monthly basis. Corpies get tipped off from NeoTrans. Fringers have to watch the skies. You get roughly 24 hours notice to prep a group and you just go for it.

That way it's not constantly dividing the playerbase but rather building groups of solo's who can work together to make flash on a consistent basis building a team dynamic along with fostering rivalries.

Also, depending on where you take said mcguffin should influence faction status.

In my opinion, all the ideas here could just be...pursued through IC means, and with help from GMs, could make a very good plot. I don't see any need for any more automated gains in the game at the moment, I think it's in a good economic state in that regards.
I don't think 80 people on during prime time big enough yet to be encouraging people ganging up together in bigger ways. It's prime population to finally see some growth and opposition against existing cliques.

Bump'ing this since we are rehashing the Automated NPC events topic. There's a lot of good points made here that don't need to be re-made.
please i need this +1
Well I mean, what's the point of the badlands if anyone going out there is encouraged not to unless they are high UE and high UE encouraged not to because they have in-city things to do. I think it's pretty neato. Probably don't need a gang of raiders/slavers.Rad scorp swarm to hit someone EVERY time they go salvaging either...
I've said for a while the badlands needs more love, as does space. Sure, it takes us away from the main game (Withmore), but stuff like this could also bring in more players who would like to play that kind of things.

I've done a scavenger character in the past, and it sucked. It's an archetype that should exist in Sindome, but frankly doesn't have the outside support others do. Even Deckers get more than scavvers, and deckers get nothing.

As before, I still +1 badlands salvage, even if it's for barely any profit.

Scavengers can exist in Withmore, easily. Just have to prey on the right situations. But yes, I think space and the badlands need more love, even if thats just with plots or similar to bring people to show off these expansive parts of the game that are rarely used.
Necro'ing this rather archaic thread to discuss badlands economy ideas. There's a recent poll on automated transport to San Mara but I worry ease of access doesn't equate to creating a player base somewhere. Space is a solid if not sparse example of this.

So, I pose the following to you fellow reader...

1. What would get you in to the badlands? Money, plot, weird shit to see?

2. Automation vs Player Innovation. What kind of hooks can we put out there to inspire you? Can they be automated or do they need to be executed by players?

3. What keeps you away from badlands RP? The first step towards a solution is understanding the problem.

I like the idea of people going out together to salvage scraps from corporate space drek. Seems themely af. The idea of a bunch of mixers getting together for the sake of surviving the trek seems cool too - and if the salvage is juuust worth enough that it doesn't split for much? It might generate rp between those mixers when they start disagreeing over who gets the biggest cut, who didn't pull their weight, or even "I'm the baddest bitch here and I'm gonna fuck you over. Try to stop me."

As for the possibility of running into badlands dangers? I'd suggest tying it to a stat or stat pairing. Maybe intelligence (survivalist/knowledge of the badlands) and dexterity (using said knowledge to actively avoid dangers maybe)? Something like that.

As for Reefer's questions - personally my answers would be.

1. Any one of those three would temp me to brave the badlands

2. Supposing you -do- run into trouble while in the badlands? A dune dragon for example? What if the claws could be crafted into a weapon at a shop somewhere for a fee? Or some old scrap could become a fitting for your dough? Based on the premise that we want the salvage to be worth something to someone, it stands to reason it has some kind of use. If there were an option to choose between selling it and putting it to our own use, that would sweeten the deal.

3. Frankly, ignorance of what's out there is my only reservation. Easy enough to fix though, if someone were to ever pursue it ICly.

1. Definitely weird shit to see. I think money and plot would work for most players, but for me, different tech, animals and factions would be the most exciting. Biz is great, but it'd have to be pretty big to cover the costs and preparation of going out there.

2. Good question. As a rule of thumb, I think player-run plots are always more interesting, but I did always want something mechanical to encourage scavenger type characters, even in Withmore. As for hooks, a supply chain/smuggling operation is always cool, transporting unique goods from Withmore to the Wasteland and vice versa. Ruins to scavenge. Hell, a party/social event with some celebrity, mixer or corpo, out in the wastes. I don't think the type of hook really matters, it's more the accessibility of it.

3. This one is super clear for me. It's the same block that prevents a lot of 'exploration' RP. You need GM support and people to coordinate play times, mainly. And even worse, you need people to persistently stay in the badlands to make it more than just an occasional return trip out there.

In all honesty, I think the badlands just need an incentive for players not only to go there, but /stay/ there. Not permanently, but enough that you could head out there and run into a couple of players and ongoing plots. The only way I see that happening is with something recurring/mechanical, and unique resources/amenities that can only be found there.

And if any of these things already exist, well, maybe just some more exposition on them. Sindome is deviously good at hiding just how much is going on beneath the surface.

I am a big fan of Mara, I think it serves to really make Withmore feel all the more cyberpunk by contrast. I also think there's some cool stuff there (sometimes), that can be a natural complement to the Withmore main economy.

One of the biggest issues is getting out there, and Mara's one of those systems that works better if there's more people around there doing things in town, but no one's around so it doesn't really work well, so few people go, et cetera.

Once you have the set up to get out to Mara easily right now, the benefits maths starts to break down, and outside some narrow circumstances that just aren't open to most players, it's more profitable to do just about anything else with your time.

Every time I went to Mara it was just for the fun of it, and it was fun for novelty, but going there for the sake of it is a big ask for the average player when there's a very real risk of just wandering in the Badlands and eventually dying if you don't know what you're doing.

Just speaking to Mara specifically, a caravan or something to get out there might liven things up a bit, and also jump start the economy a bit which might lure people out more often.

Making it more profitable to spend time there, both for new characters and better off characters, would also probably incentivize involvement in the setting.

Absolutely love the ideas here.
Just to add on my own counterpoint, the danger of encouraging players to get outside the city more, is that it disconnects them from most of the player base, and serves to reduce the total number of players in the city proper, which is definitely where you want everyone concentrated... so there's an argument as well that even if you want to encourage people to go to Mara, or the Badlands, you don't want them to linger too much necessarily.
I think if there was an economic reason to visit Mara people would, but right now there's not much -- I mean there's not no reason to go to Mara, but (without getting too IC) there's not a lot of solid incentive in the ways there are to RP in the Dome.
Speaking to making Mara more accessible, I'm personally not for it. Been around a cumulative two years of tenure, and I loooooove the fact Mara is this mystery place outside the city that only well connected people seem to be able to/know how to access. It has this charming blend of mystique and danger attached to it that I really love, and growing your network and learning how to take advantage of or visit Mara can be an entire rp experience in itself. Granted, this might only be applicable to players who have never seen it before, but it's a feeling that I remember fondly, and that would be diminished entirely by just setting up a caravan or something.
Man this would be super cool! Great ideas so far.

I don't think getting there should be easier (the journey, and learning how to make it is half the fun for me and the players I've shown) but the incentives for going could be bigger. I feel like it would have to be automated as a baseline--with puppeted enhancements--like people have suggested. Getting there takes time, and may not gel with having people ready at that moment for puppeting. Also, if a GM is ready and the player isn't there, then the GM has to wait for them to get there. Makes it tricky...

Having wild, non-puppeted NPCs (scorpions, sand-dogs, etc.) that aggro like Park dogs, or even raiders with pistols or something would also make it more dangerous. If the journey was more dangerous, then the reward at the location could be more sweet. Given farming issues, the items claimed from these NPCs could be "status items" that have no real cash value but rather bragging rights.

A courier system that links up the following locations would be cool: that shop near the dome, those buildings out there (hard to talk about without spoiling...) and Mara itself. Maybe you could get some kind of "courier pass" that allows you in and out of the Dome without pay or something? Creating a route to take packages on, and possibly some kind of system to know if someone's running that route, would allow people to set up ambushes outside the dome.

An automated system that requires more players in a group to be effective would be ideal. Here are the obstacles I see right now for Mara plotting:

Per-person cost (in/out of gate)

Expense of San Mara Goods

Expense of moving illegal goods

Availability of same goods, cheaper, in Dome

Player Commitment to travel time (what to do if they have to go afk mid-run?)

Isolation from main playerbase, and difficulty finding other players out in the Badlands

(Not complaining about any of the above! Very themely, but difficult to plot around)

I've been involved in a few "Mara Party" group runs. But with the cost of each player's in/out, and the availability of the goods in the Dome, it often ends up being a charity situation.

An NPC shop in the Dome that buys unique goods from Mara at a solid price, and "reps" badlands style/life in the Dome would be a start. Hell, maybe there's a sic-amp in a bar out in Mara and some guy talks shit about the Dome on it or something. I think the system would have to reward larger groups though, instead of just one guy with a specific vehicle from jamming out there and hoovering up everything.

I've run into a lot of people that want to RP the smuggler angle. It would be SWEET if there was more support here. But it's a damn hard nut to crack.

Double-post because my last one was running on.

Solutions:

Unique Mara goods with real demand. A drug that you can only get out there? Something consumable besides food. Or maybe cameras or something are only available at that location.

Couriering to/from locations besides San Mara to get people into the Badlands more.

Lower cost of goods in San Mara so people can buy them cheaper and sell them in the Dome to compete with the dome market.

Dramatically lower "market" prices in Mara, and maybe spawn unique items for fixers?

Remove the low-demand "general items" (towels, cigarettes, etc.) so that running crates in Mara pops more high-demand items that can be trafficked more readily.

"Hacked/Boosted" Sic-Amp in a Mara location to allow player communication between population Mara and the Dome.

Maybe a SIC-alternative to use outside the dome (besides phones)? Like an external SIC channel? Makes no sense ICly, but could facilitate more RP. You could be shit-talking someone and hunting them down. Maybe you need to ping NPC's to run courier/crates on it and expose your location or something? More coding, I'm sure...

On the smuggling note, I think we tend to see it as bringing drek into the Dome rather than out. It could go both ways though - what if bringing common commodities from the Withmore to Mara earns you a discount on Mara shops for the trip? One idea to reduce the cost barrier for smuggling.

For those in the Dome, I perceive the demand as :

"I -want- this thing from Mara." while the demand from Mara is "We -need- this thing from the Dome."

It's a matter of relying on Withmore's trade, in part. for survival, whereas the Dome doesn't need them in return - and that demand can strengthen bargaining power.

Or bribing the guards to reduce/waive import fees if you bring them something they like from Mara. They're favorite meal that's only available out there, or something. Another idea.
Reaching San Mara is an adventure at its present difficulty and I feel it would be a shame to detract from that by making the "accessibility" of San Mara easier.

The reward from reaching San Mara however can be hit or miss at best. There are useful goods -sometimes- available at Mara that can provide an IC incentive to visit but when those goods aren't available due to game mechanics all the time spent prepping to get out there and actually getting out there can quickly become a wasted effort. Getting said goods back into the city also seems impossible without GM intervention which further complicates plotting and arguably wastes gm time on what could be a more streamlined process.

Space suffers from poor rewards to what I would argue is an even greater extreme. It may be easier to access but the financial input required to reach space is massive from the outset with almost nothing but status goods and tourism to encourage visits outside of gm intervention. It really does seem a shame that this well developed area isn't utilised much in game besides the occasional novelty factor.

I'm bumping this because I think this idea is more relevant than ever. With the recent addition of junkyards, I propose that random badlands "junkyards" should spawn in the form of space junk that has rained down from the atmosphere.

These junkyards would be for harvesting more eclectic space goods and would vanish after a time.

Thoughts?

I love this idea but only on one condition. Falling debris has to occasional strike Blue and send the loot filled corpses of Withmore's elite tumbling down to the lower levels to feed the beast of the masses.
Also, more space salvaging.

Withmore already has a corporation that is supposed to be focused on space, but due to a need to keep the number of player involved corporations limited, it is not active.

I could see an annual or bi-annual trip to space be an awesome plot to drive corporate cohesion and competition.

NeoTrans to get the mission into space.

NLM gets to film it. Reality TV, In Space?! (Obviously I'm not creative)

ViriiSoma gets space germs and whatever else to do evil VS stuff with.

Mining asteroids. Scavenging satellites. There are lots of possibilities.

And lastly, the mission has a greater than 50 / 50 chance of crashing into Blue on the way back and sending the loot filled corpses of Withmore's elite tumbling down to the lower levels to feed the beast of the masses.

+1 to Bandlands junk spin-off of the junkyard mechanic.