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[Mar '22] Improvements Feedback
Feedback here for improvements made in March '22.

feedback here, not elsewhere. 500 chyen fine.
Tracking fuel consumption over the last week, the changes to high-efficiency engines seem to be far more than a little more consumption, I've seen more than double although I assume this is cumulative effect of consumption also being rebuilt.

These engines were reporting they reduce fuel efficiency, which I was assuming was a grammatical mistake, but is it a possible there is an inverse value somewhere and they are using more fuel rather than less? Because the consumption is very high.

A lot of activities with AVs seem to be unaffordable now, so I'm hoping there is maybe something wrong.

The 'heft' shown on billboards almost raises fuel consumption. If you had an even less efficient engine on a large craft, it could be as high as 3-4 times worse than pre-balance.
And no, engines absolutely do reduce fuel efficiency. Because they consume it. If you didn't have en engine, you'd use no fuel! :)
I'm pretty lost now as to the use of the term efficiency here. The way I would expect it to work is a highly efficient engine would use less fuel per arbitrary unit of travel as compared to a standard engine: It would have improved fuel efficiency in comparison.

Are you saying fuel efficiency is measured on a negative scale starting at 0? So all engines reduce efficiency?

Yes, all engines reduce fuel efficiency. You're looking for the engine that reduces fuel efficiency the least.
Okay got it. Thanks for the clarification.
Trust 2.0 feels weird, is there not a way to trust people, fully even if you disguise or not. Tracking trust in an operation when disguises might be coming on and off multiple times feels like it will be an ass to try and track for medics.
^ I believe that is the point and also a fun way for people to sneak into your crews. Communication is key.
@trust that person with their disguise on and off. As long as their name is the same as when you trusted that person, it should be safe.
The point is to intentionally make OOC management of trust harder and more confusing?
The point is to fix an exploit players were using to find out when other characters were disguised.

This is not a game balance change, this is an exploit fix, and this is what's required to fix it.

@trusted used to bleed potentially sensitive information, which the new system seems to avoid.
I understand, I was more hoping that there would be the ability to like trust+ for those willing to allow that level of trust?
No, because it would then be possible to double-blind cheat by trust+ing someone, then when you run into a random disguised person in the street, attempting to @trust them again and getting the "you already trust that person" error.
This is why we can't have nice things :)

Cool cool, I guess the onus is on the individual being healed to trust a healer.

It makes sense that if you don't recognize the person you wouldn't trust them.
Disguise has a lot of potential for extremely advanced techniques that have only been used a few times that I've ever seen, and one of the issues with trying was players had to avoid giving away any meta tip-offs for long periods of time.

I love the whole disguise system and I'm really glad to see most of the giveaways associated with it getting patched out over the last two years.

It is now possible to dress other players.

The potential for hilariously pranking sleeping friends abounds.

I sense some new business for tailors coming... XD

While jewelry now appears to make you more "posh", it still makes you less "well-dressed." Putting expensive jewelry on will make you go from "pretty posh" to "very posh" in your description, but you will lose the "well-dressed" short desc -- I think that short desc is especially what people are always looking for because it shows so often when you move.
Sorry, I'm not seeing that.
These descriptors show what is most noticeable. Flashy jewelry is more noticeable than well-dressed. This isn't a linear one dimensional scale where poshness is a lesser form of well dressed, and thinking that is a misconception on the player side.

It is currently working as intended.

Would it be possible to make it so that if someone who you @trust disguises themselves in the same room as your character that this trust automatically carries over to their disguised form?

This would keep the realism of the current change, but also keep the QoL-feature of not having to keep track of trust in an annoying micro-managing way and would eliminate the quite silly situation that your character stops trusting their ace kool, just because they saw him put on a poncho.

For the jewelry change, was custom jewelry ordered from stores factored in and not need any potential manual adjustment/settings?
Yes, that is the only jewlery that was adjusted
If my character sees an ally they completely trust change into a shroud, that doesn't mean my character trusts all shrouded people who look the same with their very life. I think autotrust should be optional / something that one can toggle on and off. Some people will naturally trust shrouds who look like their friends while others will be guarded.
That's not how it works, Rhicora. @trust shroud doesn't trust all shrouds, it only trusts that particular shroud. Your concern isn't applicable.

help trust for more info.

You seem to have added code that fixes an issue you point out in the trust helpfile so that may need to be updated.
Thanks for the adjustment to @trust. That's a great QoL change.
Thanks for the clarification and the new helpfile! I feel much more trusting now.
Vehicles and darkness -

With this change, can we please get functional (not just descriptive) headlights on vehicles?

I literally came here to say what Blackbird said. Dismounted characters have options for seeing in the dark. AFAIK none of the options a dismounted character has would work with a vehicle, and especially in certain settings, not being able to see dramatically affects a vehicle's utility and relevance.

This patch note back in November said the value of armor decreased when repairing, but the feedback seems to suggest the armor is losing (now possibly finite?) durability after repairs. Is that the case?

That is correct.
Kind of a dramatic change to stealth patch in, especially considering how expensive many of those items are and how long they were non-consumable objects.
i am happy
I don't get it, don't vehicles already have headlights?
Was there an un-announced Scarab change? Some of the values on the vehicle billboard have changed substantially.

EOT :D My mind is spinning at how expansive this could be.

Will there be some way for those who were not present during the particular hour a discussion took place to be able to review what was said? An extended rewind feature, perhaps? Or a transcript posted to the BGBB?

OH DANG ! Drink spiking.


Spiking, mixing. Consumes the whole drug, like the whole thing no matter how many uses.
Black bags should make your movement be like if you're drunk or someone with decent spatial awareness and game knowledge can boogie.
Well, no more drinking in public I suppose.

Or just watch your drink without leaving it unattended like you would at a real bar? Don't accept food and drink from shady people, etc.

I complained loudly about the fuel consumption increases on large vehicles because it seemed to make some activities I really liked too costly, but now that vehicle balancing has seen a few iterations and especially now that the freight system (!!!) was implemented, it all makes a lot of sense to me and I completely love it.

It's very easy to understand the strengths and purposes of vehicles, they each sort of have a niche of their own, and having freight to replace crates makes the huge costs of equipment and fuel have a tangible upside.

I reserve the right to say space flight was the best addition ever if I get to try it, but until then freight/vehicle changes are far and away my favorite addition to the game.

Freight is cool. But until we have heavy weapons to disrupt the supply chain, it feels like a work in progress.

I don't know about the rest of the player base, but I'm looking forward to the future of MANPADS spiraling up out of the Mix.

Manpads and heavy weapons are already in game.
Heavy weaponry is in game, as per a past update log, and available. FOIC.

"You spot SHI Scarab Cargo AV flying high overhead."

.oO ( Challenge Accepted) Oo.

Love the skillsoft changes.

A little bummed out of the accessiblity of language softs though as it dramatically reduces the value of those that invested into what seems to be a rather niche section of the game now.

"languages aren't used enough"

*makes change to make more languages accessible so people use the feature more*

"the value has been reduced of languages."

Me: ???

No, the value of your languages isn't the UE, the UE spent towards languages doesn't even influence your cap. It INCREASED the value of your languages because now someone might actually use the feature.

AH ! Then I retract my statement HUGELY and appologise, I had no idea it did not infulect the cap.

Sorry >_< !

eidetic memory, so if I have a high grade soft, and slot another one it might not fully load as the system is out of memory?
Skillsofts have been historically used to bridge the gap when specialists are not available, and now they can't fill that role at all. When people want something done, they do not have 7 days and 22 hours to wait for a skillsoft to load. This is an absolutely insane amount of time to wait.

Many people who were able to quickly go out and handle certain tasks are basically no longer able to do them at all, as a result of this change. I was imagining a couple hours of skill training when the changes were proposed, not this. This is ridiculously impractical.

Then it is having its intended effect.
This change will prevent many services from being accomplished at all, which will have a broad and negative impact on the game. You will see.
Yeah, this one really stings.
You're smart. You'll figure out a way to cope, and if you don't, the next person who does will overtake your businesses.
I think it brings about the importance and relevence to those that choose to delve deep into utility skills opposed to combat. Seeking out and building a network of specialists builds RP.

I personally think this is a fantastic change.

Those that were swapping skillsofts in and out at will, it will hit hard, it will be a change of gears. But it does not detract from expanding your skill set with skillsofts if you stick to something you might work with for a while, like a job change or activity change.

The change seems to reward character diversity across the dome, promoting RP over slotting softs.

I trust the staff that if there is a hugely negative impact to the community that tweaks will be made, like all systems have been.

Lets just give it a chance, it could breed wonderful things in the world.

Strongly agree with Rhicora, no issues making softs a little less instantaneous but this is impractical to the point of being unusable. Now something I already started days ago will be ruined because my soft needs several more to be of any use, and given how easily they can be lost I don't know how I'll ever actually be able to make use of it again if the skill resets every time I unslot it to leave the house.

Having a really hard time understanding this change, especially since opting out of my socket is not an option if I don't want to bother.

As someone who uses softs, I love this change. Previously, there was nearly zero downside to using a soft other than the cost. There was nearly no risk as you could either have them in your inventory, or use them in your apartment. Several of these softs were skills that were nearly universally done in an apartment, meaning there was little practical way to get at them.

Now, if you want to rock that Plat soft and push out people who have invested UE into a skill, you have to walk around with it in your head all the time. That's fantastic. Again, as someone who uses them, I love this. I either choose to invest in skills, or I walk around with thousands of chy in my head and make myself a VERY lucrative target. This is a much needed balance.

I know you reduced Language Softs, perhaps after a bit, look at reducing the cost of all softs to make the sting of losing them a little better and to reflect their role with a more selected and limited use.

In the skillsoft change poll previous to the town hall, the absolute majority of players (more than fifty percent) voted for no change. And yet this went into effect.

I think the problem with the poll was that there wasn't another option, 'Skillsofts need a different change'. Because we're aware of the issues, but this fix ain't it.

I am sure if it causes major issues for a majority of the player base it will be tweaked.

Perhaps we should give it a chance though, embrace the change see how things go?

I am excited to see more player interaction, more deals brokered and so on.

Instead of spending 100k on a plat soft, why not get someone good at that job on retainer for 100k?

Making it 30 minutes would address the issue while still making these workable but more inconvenient then going to a player with the natural skill on the fly. This is pretty much a total nerf an also disproportionately impacts red sector as opposed to topside (as on topside your odds of getting attacked for these is far lower).


Because people love to come and go in this game VERY often, and just as often without a word. In my year+ of playing finding people to hire for particularly unpopular skillsets has been aggravating at best and hellish at worst.

Maybe this will change that, I don't know, but it's a significantly huge nerf to roll out so suddenly.

To be fair Red Sector is supposed to be a gritty dog eat dog sector.

It's dangerous, it's brutal and it's disgusting.

You have 20 chy? That's someone's food etc.

I agree with the time being a little... Much so to speak.

Yes, it may soon be so dangerous, gritty, brutal and disgusting that even fewer players want to play there!

To play devils advocate here, there are people who invest in skills over months of irl game time that are overlooked because slotting a skill slot essentially erases the need to even interact with them in certain skills.

That can lead to anomosity and a feeling of not having a purposeful character even after huge amounts of investment. I have seen this IC and heard the sentiment OOC too, as well as personally experiencing that feeling as a player when offering a service to be disregarded because they have a skill chip.

I agree that this change will highlight the frustration of finding people. But I think that could be to do with people not wanting to stick to things for the long haul when they can be so easily replaced with an ingame item, especially those in the lowbie, midbie bracket.

This is of course not a reflection upon all interactions, but enough interactions to formulate an opinion that is apparent in the game.

Maybe skillsoft download time could scale with intelligence, making using skillsofts a sort of “skill” itself, making it somewhat akin to buying something and learning how to use it?
I'm a little confused about the wording of the skillsoft update, because it seems to use the word "skillsoft" to refer to both the socket and the chips.

If I understand it, the socket has a maximum amount of skill it can provide, and then the quality of the chip determines how quickly that maximum is reached? Is that right? And is that maximum spread out across multiple chips or is it per "slot"?

I would more or less repeat my earlier opinion that the big balance changes really ought to lend themselves to more flexibility in character choices.

Skillsoft sockets can't be removed short of death (I don't think?), jobs (at least mine) are semi-permanent decisions, UE spent is all but permanent. I'm not even sure if I have the UE left to adapt to this change, I think at least this should qualify for the big code changes that loosen respec requirements.

@0x1mm That was one of the first concerns I raised, that I felt like sweeping changes like this should have some sort of soft reset potential for high UE characters. Because some people where really built around being able to hotswap softs. Granted, we can still NOT hotswap them, and instead just keep them bolted in presumably until death, but the memory bandwidth change makes it so you're not going to be anywhere near able to do what was possible before when slotting triple platzzzz.

Now not addressing a specific player, I'll say: I like the change. I support the change. But I also recognize this would have been a *MASSIVE* deal for previous characters I've played. This is a game-dynamic shift, it changes the entire way we have to think of building characters, and it will hopefully create a lot of opportunities for characters to benefit from.

i feel like waiting days for a skillsoft to load defeats the purpose of a skillsoft
As someone who is heavily affected by the changes and invested in the system, I know that it's got a heavy sense of loss accompanied with it. But.. skillsofts are still there and still allow us to experience systems that we wouldn't have a chance to touch without them.

They were nerfed because they were over powered and it sounds like their use was negatively impacting the community in a way that was harmful enough to warrant the change. We gotta trust that staff make these decisions because they're solving issues that we can't see outside of our own experience, and that they'll continue iterating and making changes to make the game better, like they have been for the past year.

@Pavane As I understand it from staff's couple of clarifications on chat. It sounds like: You have a memory bandwidth. A plat soft takes a ton. A bronze takes very little. There's three sockets, and you choose how you want to spend that bandwidth. There is a sum total of +skill points that you can get out of the socket, no matter how nice of a chip you use. So one plat, full value (presumably) Two plats, less, three plats, even less. So with two or three plats slotted, you're wasting a lot of the value of the plat soft and would be better off slotting like one plat, one gold and one silver, or however the math has been done. That way you don't have 'wasted' skill points in expensive chips in your head.
i think the loading times are fine but if im reading this thread right it takes weeks to load some softs? can't it just take a day or so max? i feel like that's a little harsh, as someone who's never used skillsofts myself.

ill point out that the reason why skillsofts are so necessary is because people who have the actual UE in the skills are often too risk-averse to actually use those skills in risky plots. if it takes someone a week to load up a slot it can hold up roleplay for, well, a week.


I strongly disagree with that. The reason it may seem so is that the people that use the softs only contact the person with the UE skill for jobs that they feel have a high probability of failure and a low return. Something the person wit the UE skill may also recognize.

@batko That's entirely the point of the change.

You're not supposed to slap in a soft and do a job another character could, and should be doing, then stick it back in a safe hole where it isn't going to ever get stolen.

Now you either hire out joebaka the plumber to fix your broken pipe in a timely manner, or you keep the plumbing chip installed 24/7 and risk losing it.

if you had it load over the course of 24-48 hours then that would still achieve the same goal without making it completely worthless, talon.

also, RSB, i have personally witnessed midbies choose fighting against the shady people trying to get them to do shady things, over just doing shady things for profit for shady people. for no reason other than wanting to not do risky shady things. this is a real issue that has happened multiple times, not just something i have dreamed up.

One extremely huge positive of this change is that combat softs just got a insanely huge buff. Since skills don't instantly decay the second chips come out of your head anymore, that means you can slap a plat soft for golf clubs in, and in a week or so's time, be a fucking badass at golf clubs. Get it knocked out? Who cares, golf club that motherbakalaka's head off then pick your chip back up. No more suddenly fumbling a weapon because you somehow forgot how point and click works, or having to carry 1-2 backup sets of weapons in the event your chip got punted out.

It's very nice, and something I'm really looking forwards to incorporating into my gameplay.

Lots of good thoughts here. A few points. Just because a poll shows people lean in a direction doesn't mean we are going to go in that direction. We want input but in the end we have to look out for what makes the most sense balance wise. There are a lot of inputs to consider, player favorability is only one.

These changes were made because people are using skillsofts to be OP at everything. A single player with a ton of money can effectively, as was pointed out by others, be amazing at any skill in the comfort of their apartment with minimal risk. This change means that you can still be effective in a specific role, as your job, the same as before. But at the same time you can't be effective at every job at will with no planning or preparation.

The fact that this was previously possible is one of the reasons we don't have people in some roles because their job was being done by people in their apartments. Things like gun maintenance, ripping, electronics specialists, gear heads tech gurus...

This is part of an overall rebalancing. We will of course keep an eye on the balance and adjust as time goes on as needed based on metrics and feedback.

Give the changes a shot and keep an open mind. Thanks all!

(Edited by Slither at 8:16 pm on 3/13/2022)


There was for sure an issue with softs being too OP and needed archetypes not being able to fill their roles, no argument there. Please please please consider adding sockets to the list of chrome that is uninstallable though, it doesn't really make sense that it isn't and this would be fair given the drastic overhaul to softs. If after x weeks people decide the new system doesn't really work for them/their PC, that option would be great.

I'm fine with the change but I feel like the prices need to be brought significantly down to reflect their far more limited usefuless.
I'd suggest a sixty second grace period for people removing their skillsofts for those people unfortunate enough to have their brain skip and they unslot the wrong one, so you don't have to start the timer over.

Right now when you unslot and reslot immediately it goes back to the beginning (I don't know if it has an accelerated speed time after just a short bit). So to prevent potential abuse of this feature, you could put a sixty second lockout alongside the grace period where the only skillsoft which can be slotted is the one which was just removed.

There is a one hour grace timer for unslotting already.
Per the patchnotes, the load only insta-resets only if it was <=1% loaded to prevent spam.
I don't know if what you're intended is working, because it doesn't seem to be on my end. But I'll see how the next day goes before I submit an @bug.
Unslotting a bronze soft reset it immediately.
Can you provide more details? Vague statements like that add to the confusion and really grind my gears. If you slot it and then unslot it immediately it SHOULD disappear, but you didn't specify that.
Sorry I was out at the time, but no it had been fully loaded and when unslotted reverted to the lowest 'level' and was gone.

Fixed a bug where unslotting a chip always reset load. Per the previous discussions, this wasn't the intended function, I just forgot to pass an argument into a function. All fixed now.

Thank you. I was confused and I wanted to wait a day to make sure I hadn't screwed up or wasn't presuming too much.
Unslotted a fully loaded silver soft for about 15 minutes, level remained the same, re-slotted it and a few minutes later I got the feedback message about my knowledge increasing except it had tanked back down to the first level.
I'm curious how cargo holds and freight capacity will be handled from here on out. Are there going to be manual audits of what volume of items are in holds to adjust freight capacity or is it only vehicles that had items in them when freight got added that will get cut back?
So having now used the freight system, (or rather not used it) I would like to suggest that -anyone- be allowed to unload the cargo, in order to make it collaborative. There are certainly edge cases and instances where this restriction is really harsh.
After having used the new skillsoft system for a while, I understand better why the changes were made and I now feel they'll be good for the game overall. The load times and memory limits are quite punishing, but I suspect that's leading to more referral business and hiring of others, which I view as really healthy. There are certain skills that still have a shortage of experts in them but hopefully the gaps are filled soon by enterprising players.
After having finally used the updated bleed system, I'd like to just say that the patches are very unwieldly and impractical, making combat unwieldly and impractical as an extent. I don't mean to doomsay or anything about it, but high-end combat characters now need to get almost entirely nude after a combat to stop themselves from bleeding out.

If the idea it to stop people from stopping bleed mid-combat like in the past, I'd prefer if there was simply a check to make sure the command is not being used while the player is in combat, rather than making it so you cannot apply it with something covering certain parts of the body.


If you can't see in a room that's dark, you now take massive combat penalties to attacking.

I think that what I am reported is related.

Currently if a character is a "dark" room, they cannot "see" into a lit room.

Conversely if they are in a "lit" room, they can see into a "dark" room.

This seems exactly opposite of how it "should" be. If I am outside in the dark, I can see what is going on in a lit room. If I am in a lit room, the light in the room makes it more difficult to see out into the darkness.

For an RL example, this is why in interrogation rooms with two-way mirrors, they have to keep the back side of the mirror (the side that you can look through, into the interrogation room) dark. They keep the interrogation room lit.

The bleeding system, specifically stopping bleeding, could use some adjustments to make it feasible.
Agreed on the bleeds feedback from @batko and @Stiza.

Can we either get more usable consumables or fix the reality of how useless those specific items meant to be used in/immediately after combat are?

If the intention is to make us load up on relevant cyberware, though, I can understand that as well. More utility ware at the expense of minmax ware is sensible.


@batko wrote,

After having finally used the updated bleed system, I'd like to just say that the patches are very unwieldly and impractical, making combat unwieldly and impractical as an extent.

@batko also wrote,

but high-end combat characters now need to get almost entirely nude after a combat to stop themselves from bleeding out.

Taking these out of order, I like that characters need to get almost entirely nude after combat to stop serious bleeding. That's pretty much the reality of serious injuries.

Trauma sheers are a thing for a reason. Note in the attached link that they will cut through things like seatbelts, rings (metal) and watchbands (metal). The first thing that "you" have to do is get at the wound. That means you have to get everything else out of the way.

That said, Sindome is the cyberpunk future of 2107. There should be some mechanic (like patches, injectors, whatever) that can quickly / easily be injected into a wound / placed over it to stop the bleeding (at least long enough, minutes perhaps, to get the patient to a trauma doc in a clinic.)

It seems like those patches exist (FOIC), but @batko believes they are too hard to apply.

My question is, is this a "bleed system" issue? The way I read it, it comes down to layering. Layering is a major FOIC system.

I wonder if the game "needs" something like trauma sheers. They would give characters a choice. Slice through all the layers to quickly get at a wound (and lose / heavily damage the armor and clothing in the process). Or, take the time / frustration penalty of having to strip off the layers.

The other consideration is being able to quickly expose limbs to apply patches / trauma care. Maybe something like 'expose' command that could be used by medics. Maybe this proposed command requires @trust. Maybe medics can 'force' it upon unconscious patients who aren't able to @trust. Maybe too many layers, or certain types of layers (thick armor, etc.) prevent the use of the 'new expose' on limbs.

Just some food for thought.

(sorry for the double reply)

I mentioned a new expose command for limbs.

Torso wounds: punctures, via blades, bullets or whatever, should absolutely require exposing the torso. Same thing with neck and head wounds. Though I could see the neck being a 'limb' for the purposes of being able to expose it.

I will also point out that in all these discussion, the assumption is that the user is wearing a full body covering garment, which is a choice of a specific set of gear, not a universal experience.

However, I would appreciate the ability to use various patches through expose, or with less of a body exposed at a time. Maybe it takes more time with a message where you are digging under clothing to slap on the patch, but it would be helpful.

Not trying to derail but did the patches actually get a price reduction, too? They're -significantly- more expensive than what we used to be able to tote around, I worry about this increasing risk aversion.
The patches require a major artery or vein, but do not work on the hands, where the wrists should be. If all you needed was to take your gloves off, that's fine. But as you get to use better armor, as most high end combatants eventually do, taking everything off to expose the current acceptable locations becomes wildly impractical after or before a combat.
Also, yes, Nymphali, they are significantly cheaper than what they used to be and act faster, but that is still magnitudes more expensive than what we used to use.

If you need to pay this much to stop bleeding without skill, why not make it actually viable in later game conflict?


Glad it's not just me who thinks they're still far too overpriced for what they are, especially for newer characters. Agree making them work on hands would be a great fix for the functionality issue though!

The complaint about denuding in order to apply the bleedstopping patch isn't about how long it takes. Stripping is very fast already. I don't really see shears working any faster, and/so there would be absolutely no upside to destroying your armor with them.

THAT is the issue - that it leaves you nude and un-armored and un-disguised. Stripping and re-dressing can be done very quickly, especially with preparation and practice, but even briefly, this is a large risk.

But, it seems like a healthy trade-off to me. The patch provides an option you have to weigh against the risk.

There are other possibilities regarding the shears idea, but that's for the Ideas, not the updates feedback.

I mean, it is about how long it takes, when you just got done with a big hit and have combat shakes and have to remove upwards of six pieces of armor to stop yourself from dying, this is an issue.

If you don't want to have to do that, hire a medic to follow you around. Or get the nanogenic.

If you're finding it hard to stop yourself from bleeding after combat and it's inconvenient because you have to remove armor, you're being negatively reinforced to stop what you're doing because we don't want you to.

Which is you don't want us to wear armor.

Is lessening your risk exposure by using a don/doff @macro for your set of armor to quickly dress and strip still acceptable usage of @macro?

Do NPC doctors require you to take off your armor to stop bleeding?

No, but NPC and PC doctors also don't use extremely expensive consumables to stop your bleeding when you go to a clinic, either.

You don't want me to stop my bleeding after combat? I don't understand.

Increasing the baseline cost for combat characters was already accomplished by delegating this to expensive patches, but making those patches worthless and encouraging people to get the nanogenic just increases it even more. Not viable for low tier characters, too much of a pain in the ass for high tier. Why make everything painful for no reason?

That's amazing that doctors are able to stop bleeding without accessing your bleeding wound, but I can't stick a patch to my fucking forearm.
"* Succeeding at bleeding does not automatically stop bleeding. The amount of bleeding slowed depends on the player's skill. So it may take multiple stabilizations to stop all bleeding.

* Clinics and kitbags are better at stopping bleeding than medkits.

* Failing to stop bleeding uses supplies now, before it did not."

None of this says you cannot heal out in the field with supplies. It just says there are multiple layers and better conditions and that you now have to have some ability to do so rather than the previous setup where you didn't at all.

Bullshit conditions.
We don't want players capable of doing everything themselves, we want you to roleplay and organize with other players.

You can make a @macro for stripping, yes.

The price for the patches was nerfed, they are quite cheap. I don't believe they are expensive.

Expensive for gangers, by a long shot. I have played a ganger. If I had to pay the current price every time I got into a fight, I'd probably have quit. Not that it matters, because being able to apply them at all is already hit or miss, so the patch is not even worth the money you spend.

If the patches work on major veins and arteries, why can you not apply them to the wrists, making it so you only need to take your gloves off?

Because that's how it be. We consistently monitor the balance of game systems and adjust as we need to. We'll readjust to allow wrists if/when we feel like we should.
I'd love to see people actually pausing for a moment to consider if they should be ganging with machine guns and katanas. And if the price is that those people get booted the heck out of gangs because they keep vatting others out? Or if they have to change up their weapon choices when repping? Well, them's the brakes.
The reason patches are more expensive than a medkit is because you don't have to be trained to use them. They're allowing you to bypass an entire skill in order to ensure you don't die on the street covered in blood with your ass hanging out.

Get a combat medic, or learn to heal yourself without the patches.

On the topic of bleeds, I would like to say that I really like the increased threat of bleeding and how it's (presumably) a pretty big buff to firearms and gunplay. We joke about realism in discussions about gameplay, but it's not getting shot in the brain or heart that kills you most often, it's the bloodloss from internal wounds.

Even a relatively minor gunshot can be a life-threatening injury, and yes, you should have to stop what you're doing and book it as fast as you can to the local docshop. Personally speaking, it's seemed that for a long time, bleeds were mostly an annoyance that would get you killed every once in a blue moon, and I absolutely love both the mechanics and RP implications of the bleed change.

Players will adapt to it. We'll have more medics, we'll have more EMT's, we'll have more people suddenly interested in adding medical skills to their repertoire as the meta shifts to the code changes.

I'll be honest, I've not actually noticed any difference from my perspective of the game. Gangers still drag other gangers to the clinic (or if they're smart get a medic on-hand beforehand) and if they flatline they generally get revived. However, I recognise that this is far from the realms of high-tier hyper-lethal combat.

@TalonCzar I will say that suggesting LESS avenues for people to be using guns seems like a poor decision, although weapon usage around the Code is still kind of a "don't scratch the wallpaper" type of situation.

I think if staff want to work towards making combat medics a thing, they should try reducing the absolutely absurd prices of combat medic gear. A lot. Then combat medics will be a thing, I guarantee you. Make it so people can actually afford it without it basically costing a car's worth of money. Then they will take it on risky jobs, and fight with it, and it's not such a big deal.

Right now, all it does is move the baseline of solo chrome suites to include a nanogenic. Nobody wants to take a kitbag on a job and potentially lose a 100kc+ item over a 20k hit job. Solo work and combat is already high risk enough. And medpaks, from what Mirage is saying, are not very effective and take multiple of them to heal a single bleed. Well, considering they all weigh absurd amounts, a kitbag is really the only way to go here, in my eyes.

With all due respect, the reason people do not drag around medics with them is not because medkits are too easy.

The reason people do not widely play niche support roles is not because of skillsofts.

It would be nice to look at some ways to incentivize collaboration / playing these roles (carrot approach) rather than using the stick approach of locking down everything to try to force something that is not happening due to other reasons. While these things may give a shot of usefulness to these other roles, it is not addressing the core problem.

I disagree with your feedback, batko. Combat medics are already a thing.

Regarding your other comment, we're looking at making everything in the game cheaper, per townhall feedback, but we don't have metrics and reporting in place and we won't be doing a wide scale change like that without tooling in place to monitor the data we want.

We make decisions based on data, not just gut feeling. There's no ETA on when that tooling will exist. It's waiting on me finishing another rewrite of Toast SQL support, and I am currently on week two or three of vacation from Sindome.

Also, with all due respect, I didn't say medpaks were useless. I said their use scaled with your character's ability, and if you suck they will suck, to be blunt.
I didn't say they were useless, just that it seems to be the implication that they are not very effective at stopping serious bleeds and that you should expect to use multiple to do so. And, with how heavy they are, carrying multiple just to stop a single bleed is not practical, so I'd prefer if the proliferation of kitbags was encouraged, since the patch notes do say they're more effective.

I get that this was a measured response, I'm just also suggesting other ways to encourage bringing more people into conflicts and making them want to get out in the field more. Kitbags, or maybe a lesser version of the current kitbag, are a great way to get people to think more on hiring a medic eho has one or even just trusting one with the gear you personally own.

In all fairness, the suggestion could have probably been an Ideas thread, but that's what happens when I post at ungodly hours.

Undeliverable freight was marked working as intended.

There's not really any obvious way of handling a vehicle full of expired containers, or apparently verbs to interact with them, whether to return them to the original sender or otherwise, once they've expired.

I'm not sure how this is supposed to be handled but it seems like just allowing delivery to the destination for zero payout would be consistent with how crates work.

I have not used the freight system but I 100% agree with 0x1mm's suggestion to allow delivery of expired freight for zero payout, just like crates.

Given that the two systems are logically identical (move valuable from A to B), it makes sense that they should handle expired items identically.

To add to freight feedback; hypothetical freightcrimes are being foiled not only by lack of ways to fence cargo after it becomes late, but also by a traceback bug that occurs when trying to transfer liberated freight from one vehicle to another (MOO-10243). Faced with those two issues, I don't know if it's viable to pull off freight hijackings yet.
Not an oversight or a bug, I just released the system before I added a way to do that. Thought I would have more time, and I didn't. Will do it when I return. Like all new systems I create, use at your own peril.