Group Discussion: Feeling guilty OOCly
Should I feel guilty OOCly when my character hurts someone?

In Character

When we say IC we mean In Character. When we say ICly it's like saying that something has to happen/be asked/be told/take place in the game world. It means your character, not you, needs to handle it. Things that happen ICly are things that happen In Game. Things that happen In Game, happen to your character and not to you. If your character is punched, you do not feel it. If they are mad, that does not mean you are mad. IC information is information pertaining to the game world. Where a character lives, what happened the night before at the Drome, who killed who, are examples of IC info.

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Out of Character

When we say OOC we mean Out of Character. When we say OOCly we are saying that YOU not your character need to take care of something. If an admin says they need to talk to you OOCly that probably means over xhelp. the OOC-Chat is considered communicating OOCly with other players, when you talk on OOC-Chat it is you talking, and has nothing to do with your character. If you are having a bad day, that doesn't mean your character is having a bad day. They might have just gotten a promotion. Non-banned OOC info examples: where you are from, how old you are, your name, your facebook or aim, anything non-ic related.

IC / OOC Boundaries

There are several boundaries that cannot be crossed (in most circumstances) when dealing with the line between IC and OOC knowledge and how, when and if it can be communicated.

1. A player may discuss any IC information with any admin.

2. An admin may not reveal IC information over an OOC channel.

2.A All IC information received by players from admin must be received through an IC means (npc, letter, grid, etc) except common knowledge (what year is it, where is Withmore located, did we land on Mars).

This means players cannot discuss ANY aspect of the current IC game world with any other player. Telling old stories, discussing the theme or generalized events is acceptable when no non-common knowledge IC info is discussed. For example if there was an event happening this weekend that had been advertised on SIC or TV and grid, it would be acceptable to ask a fellow player outside the game 'Are you going to be around for the RP event on Saturday?'.

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All this being said, let's have a discussion that does not reveal any IC information (change names, situations, dates, to make it as generic as possible whenever possible) in which we talk about something that has effected many of you.

We all seem to enjoy a blood soaked, back-stabbing filled cyberpunk RP session in which we come out on top and everyone else is dead. Yes, it's just as fun to lose but that isn't what we are talking about here. We're talking about the times you don't lose, the times where every part of a plan falls into place like clockwork and the board is swept clean of enemies on all fronts, the times where you look back and wonder what you did to deserve the run of good luck that seems to have been the only thing keeping you alive through all the crazy shit that you almost didn't survive, the times where you RP'd your ass off, got the job done and moved up the ladder -- at the expense of another.

What should we call it? Well, we model our world off of real life. So in some cases it's survivors guilt, in some case it's a criminals remorse at their actions. However, in this sense it's our conscience saying -- HEY WAIT, WE AREN'T A BAD PERSON WHY ARE WE DOING THIS? -- and us saying, shit, why -am- I doing this?

We all get into our characters and care for them deeply but we are -not- our characters. Your character might be the nicest person in the world but that really says nothing about how you act in real life. It would be insulting of me to assume that you were nice, perhaps you are just a good role player.

I have lost count of the number of times I've felt guilty for killing another character. This hasn't been as big of a problem lately, as I've tried to pull my character away from that kind of thing. At first I thought it was because I was an admin, but now I've begun to think it's really always been because I feel bad killing someone else's character. They could totally deserve it ICly but I feel OOCly bad. The characters PLAYER hasn't done anything to me, and therefore I shouldn't do something that is going to hurt that player... right? Obviously, that's not the best attitude to have in a cyberpunk game. We are supposed to be ruthless in our struggle to survive and thrive. That's one of the things that drew us in about the genre.

So, this is a bit of a support group for people like me that feel badly OOCly, for the actions of their character. For those who can't help but let some of the OOC feelings seep into their IC actions. We wouldn't feel bad for NOT letting our OOC dislike of a player effect our IC treatment of their character, why should we feel bad for NOT letting out OOC like or neutrality toward a player effect our IC treatment of their character?

The goal here is to work through some of the reasoning behind why we feel like this, to clear the air, to discuss what's right and wrong OOCly, to ask if we even SHOULD feel OOCly bad about something our character did and to be told truthfully that we should not.

No IC info, don't post until at least 3 hours after something has happened ICly to allow all parties enough time to cool down OOCly (just in case), no OOC bitching, the first person to throw ANY BLAME around in this topic is going on my shitlist and isn't coming off of it for a long time, savy?

We play a cut throat game where if you aren't betraying someone you are probably the one being betrayed. Where murder, perma death, back stabbing and lying are not only encouraged but -essential- to survival. There is NOTHING wrong with acting like it.

I'm going to moderate this, and I will respond and address things, and I encourage other admin to as well if they want to, but this is not an official admin thread. Any opinion I offer is my own as long as you aren't flaming anyone or blaming someone for something. Don't take anything I say as any kind of official decree unless I specifically state it as such (if I need to be adminly for some reason during the discussion).

If you're still wondering if this thread is for you here are some basic guidelines:

DONT POST: If you have had something bad happen to your character and you felt OOCly upset or angry in any way, you are welcome to read the responses here to get an idea of where the other persons head was at but I ask that you don't post here. If there is a need, feel free to create another thread for that discussion and I will help to moderate it.

POST: If you betrayed someone ICly, killed someone for an IC reason (money, revenge, gear, etc), robbed someone, ripped someone off, perma-killed someone, ratted someone out, got someone fired, or gossiped and then felt OOC remorse, anger, shame, sadness, regret, or guilt like you had done something wrong or maybe shouldn't have been so harsh or you feel like a big meanie.

I don't believe my characters have ever been murdered or otherwise fucked with without understandable IC reasons.

I know other players who also have the maturity to "play their stats" (particularly the intelligence one) or to trust the right/wrong character, while OOCly recognizing that there might be an unfortunate outcome.

I never have, and that makes me feel worse because I know I'll feel bad yet I still go through with it.

My character doesn't care. He smokes another cigarette says a few choice swear words and moves on.

As my character has become stronger I've often taken risks I wouldn't normally when involved with other PC's. Capturing them, role-playing while giving them a chance to escape among other things.

I think people get pissed when they receive no RP pre-death. Because in their mind they just assume you cheated or were meta, lost count of how many times I've felt disheartened in the game because despite my role-play I still childishly get called a cheater or people simply make assumptions and role-play on as if they know who killed them.

A practice of mine is to log off for several hours, even days after being killed to make sure I'm making calm and rational decisions and this is something everyone should think about doing. Your character is expected to lose their shit.

YOU aren't.

It's important to note, it can be just as easy to wrongly assume that the character is using OOC knowledge/assumptions to cheat the memory loss, as it is for someone to wrongly assume there was no IC reason for their death. Though I'm no less guilty of doing it myself at times when it feels like there's no way they could legitimately know.

You're expected to feel a sense of loss if your character gets perma-killed.

Because if you don't invest in your character you're doing it wrong.

But a clone death isn't so major items can be replaced, cyberware reinstalled and revenge taken. In game my character has lost an astonishing amount of money being killed, somewhere in the millions and the oldbies I'm sure have lost a metric fuck tonne more.

So don't get upset if you lose your Protek and your PopPop. Roll with the punches, role play the loss and grow as a player.

It seems odd to pick a conflict-driven environment as your choice of role playing game if you can't take your licks.

Perhaps the problem has more to do with the fact that people react badly to their characters being wronged or even killed when they don't understand why. But the way I see it, it's fine not to understand how you came to that junction; it's almost impossible to know all the facts that lead up to your death. Given that it's so unrealistic that you have the full picture, it seems immature to immediately assume that your loss is somehow meta.

Being upset at character loss is naturally - some people form attachments to characters and I think that's totally understandable especially in highly immersive formats. However, taking your frustrating and projecting it at the player of the guilty character is definitely not okay.

To Slither: I can totally understand how you feel from my experiences with other games. It's a normal reaction to feel guilty, but I think it's unfortunate. Ideally, nobody would get excessively affected OOCly when something happens to their character. But whilst we can't be sure how a player will react, and whilst there are still characters who will react negatively, it will be completely normal to feel guilty when our characters take actions that will harm others. But of course it's not because you're doing something wrong by playing a conflict-driver in a conflict driven environment, it's because you have empathy as a player.

In one instance I recall killing a friends character. And I honestly felt bad, to the point I sent him a message saying "Sorry mate, no hard feelings".

In most cases, unless if you have a superiority complex remorse will be felt.

Our characters hate other characters but players don't hate other players. Maybe that's where it stems from.

Knowing that your advantage in a situation is mostly because you've played the game longer, but it's how your character would act anyways, does seem to be a major trigger for feeling guilt.

I am apathetic.

I used to care about killing people, perming people, bettering the game, bettering others, saving people, etc. I've honestly grown somewhat disenchanted in my time just by watching behavior of players and GMs alike. My own behavior has shifted wildly during my time playing the game as well and I am just as guilty as anyone for this. I have seen the same actions of player invoke opposite results from GM's and staff alike. To an extent, I took that personally and at other times I took it in stride.

These days I've pretty much given up. Not to say I don't enjoy playing Sindome. I do greatly. However, I no longer invest the kind of emotional energy to it as I used too. In many ways, that commitment is what drove me for greatness but also drove me to be extremely bitter at times. While I do value the separation IC and OOC - I refuse to believe that the player or the GM's operate solely based on that. Best intentions, perhaps but the reality strays. I have seen it first hand and frankly, it is what it is. I have witnessed players and NPC's alike take place in the same exact actions that have resulted in wildly different IC consequences on the GM side. Are these things set in stone? Are the GM's aware of something I am not? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Are those same player(s) sharing IC things with others OOCly?

What I have noticed is that each Player and GM always has a distinctive style. A signature. That is what makes the game better or worse for the individual. Who is to say what kind of style is better? That is up to preference.

At the end of the day, the human being behind the keyboard must live with the kind of character they portray or the kind of GM they are. If you cannot, I suggest you find a different role...OR roleplay that inner conflict in your PC. Both the player and the GM are fallible but we are all in this together for the end result of a good time. Remember that.

Not really sure what I'm trying to say here but since we're all airing our emotions - fuck it.

Now, reasonably, if my opponent has a gun, they're probably going to win in an even fight, and that's what occurs. We have a mexican standoff at the gates to the city. There's some distance between us, so I'm pretty screwed. However, my character never, ever backs down from a fight. Ever. Unless my character gets shot, then they turn into a blubbering fool who runs away, tail in cheek.

So we engage. My opponent doesn't actually know how to fire his pistol, because they don't know about the examine command that would tell them that 'shoot mutherfucka with pistol' would get the job done. So, as a result, I beat them into a bloody pulp, when reasonably, they should have at least made the attempts to shoot me, because their character loves shooting people who go unarmed into a gun fight.

Now, yes, my character's motives were purely IC. They rushed in and got the upperhand and won. However, should they have? Probably not. My character probably should have got shot and ran away like a pansy. I would feel bad because the other player's OOC knowledge wasn't as good as mine was, which resulted in their disadvantage.

Weird example, but it kind of scratches at how I feel. Sadly, I'm not very eloquent, or I'd explain better.

No, not really. But I did have my share of my character's ass being handed to me. Yes it got me angry, pissed and a lot of times it simply made no sense to me why. I don't do characters with combat as primary set of skills, dodge yes, but combat is always secondary or even tertiary. But I've never went out OOCly attacking other players about it... Why? Because the not-knowing is also great RP.

I know I'm one of the few people that likes a beating with a message in game instead of a clone death. And even so my characters aren't usually the one delivering the beating. So yeah, I got a lot of players accused OOCly for attacking without IC reason, but in reality they had one: money

And guess what? That was even before I was an admin.

And I also have regrets of my RP, I once didn't perm one character that I kick myself over to this day. It was a perfect action for my character, it was the guy that killed him weekly/daily, the character hated him, but to avoid any OOC attacks at me and the other admin (and admin rules of the time), I had my character help him. To this day I regret that decision.

In the other hand I don't regret using a lot of money, gear, etc to buy people into doing my characters will. It is themely and it will add to the weave of RP. I usually tend to regret more when I go against my character's personality. Again, I usually don't play "Big Bad" characters, but I was on the receiving end of perming attempts so that my character didn't help another one and all that fun drama. But I never attacked the Player, the character, I HATED HIM, but not the player.

It takes a very thick skin to play a big bad character and the mix should be made of them. It is a pit of survival of the fittest and people should be killing each other, stealing, threatening, deceiving, plotting all the time... Maybe I should try to be one someday.

Anyone read the Hannibal Lecter books at all? I'm convinced I'm not a bad person for reading, or even enjoying, them. Yet, you know what, sometimes I do feel guilty. Even squicked.

Sindome is a story. Well, it's a lot of stories. Maybe some are perverse ones like Thomas Harris writes. One thing about stories is sometimes they get to a point where they write themselves - where your character just can't (realistically, ICly) do something different than that horrifying reprehensible thing.

Last comment: When Wintermute mentioned cheating, it helped me put my finger on what the perspective of my original post was. When I said I didn't "believe" there hadn't been IC reasons for things that were done to my characters, it wasn't about knowing ICly what the reasons were, or even OOCly.

It meant that I haven't felt, as a victim or as a perpetrator either, that cheating had gone on - and that's probably the only thing which would make me think that some remorse on the abusing player's part was called for, whether speaking about my own self or about the player of an adversary.

While I congratulate you on being able to not feel guilty, not all of us are there. Simply saying to myself "stop being fluffy, it's just a game" for the last ten years doesn't seem to have worked. So I'm trying something new. Like I said in the first post, this thread is not for everyone.

The main point I was trying to get across, was for the victims as well as the perpetrator, it is a game. Every decision you make ICly will have it's own consequences, be it good consequences or bad. Specifically for the perpetrators, the most fun I have had In Game so far is being the victim. It has already been touched on about providing some RP when killing another character, and that is an awesome practice. Especially for those oldbies who know they are much stronger.

If you need something to help you get over that guilt, RP with one of my chars and continuously fuck him over and bully him. I will give you good RP in return and harbor no hard feelings regardless of the outcome.

Specifically because I know how quick things can turn for the worse, I usually keep rough drafts of my next three character concepts. Something I encourage everyone to do.

Some players go through toons one every few months. Others stick with one for years. It's up to you what you prefer.

All i was saying is my own ramblings and approach to playing currently and to reinforce that at least from my perspective that

a) its ok to be emotionally attached a little and slightly blur the lines between Player and Character so if you feel slightly guilty thats ok...

b) that it is only a game and we are playing for a reason.. part of my reason is to engage with my character so if i feel happy or sad or upset because my character is.. thats all golden with me..

c) that other players shouldn't feel guilty about interacting however they want with me ICly / OOCly . heck however you want because im old and stupid enough to take it and its also the reason why im here playing and not shooting mindless bots on some other game.. its what separates this awesome game from the boring run of the mill games ive come from and now stopped playing.. All i ask is they take the time and effort to do it RP in a fun/interesting/engaging way...as this is what i am trying to do.

I personally know im not very good at playing an actively 'griefing' (an i know that has negative OOC impressions and i dont mean it that way but my vocabulary has failed me for a better term) character thats a hard character to play so more power to you crazy mixed up kids that can, SIndome needs you in here 'pissing in cornflakes', kicking ass and not bothering to take names and generally rabble rousing for the rest of us to spin off interesting RP..

Having feelings makes me a better role player and a better GM. If you have a problem with that, feel free to air your issue here. However, I refuse to apologize for giving fucks about the people I role play with, their characters, their In Game experiences and their enjoyment.

I believe in pushing people out of their comfort zone but not so far out of it that they start to have a bad time. I want to punch people in the feels but not so hard that it ruins their character or their enjoyment of the game.

I want to treat every character with the same baseline, but I also want to push those that can take it, further. I refuse to apologize for that.

i think sometimes i have to consciously not only be a jerk to people i already like ooc who i know can laugh about how dumb my character is. im the roleplaying equivalent of when a five year old has a crush on someone and they show it by pulling their crush's hair.

maybe every time a character kills our character we should be like "man they must really like me"

but sometimes my characters gotta be dicks like everyone else but i try not to get player characters killed in a way that i think is gonna ruin their day, like, it's always better to try and set it up so it's entertaining

You're the GM, so you can answer that better than I. Where you may suffer from guilt over being able to win 99/100 battles and know it, I suffer from the opposite. From always thinking I'm probably the one people mean when they talk about fluffy-bunny, and from admitted ignorance of nearly all game mechanics.

In one extreme scenario, I made sure to tell the highly popular victim's friends exactly what would happen and why it was happening. Naturally my character was wanted by the law for a while, but that made for some really interesting RP development, and some comprimises to get out of the situation, forming highly unlikely alliances in the process, that simply would not have been possible if I hadn't outed my PC and advertised. This made the whole storyline significantly more epic, the victim PC even sent me kudos for the way the tension ramped up at a creeping pace, white knuckles holding knives under tables as negotiations took place (and failed, miserably) before the unexpected and shocking moment the tables turned.

I think this subject, in depth, could make a good training video, the others are great and extremely helpful.

To share my thoughts, I know long ago the same as now; combat has never been my thing, much as I love it I've just never gotten into it besides sparring (even that can spin the world out from under your char alone). I know I have always been better with playing on deception, mentality and persuasion, and even flat out mind games. Back then was pretty good at it, as well as playing the innocent or trusted companion. Coming back after too long away I've tried to change the pace a little, get out of my comfort zone as you will; but have found even the simplicities of playing a thief are lost on me. It's entirely stupid to feel guilty playing a char that you can come up with all the reasoning in the world, even a complex mindset to accommodate the ruthlessness and more, and possibly IRL even able to pursue such endeavours.. But in a game to feel guilty of? Literally guilty of just stealing not even enough chyen for a drink at the local bar even.. I'm trying to rebreak this barrier, but I know all too well I play fluffy-bunny effortlessly, but it's the conflict that lures me here. I thrive on being beaten down, suffering, killed over and over again.. Yes I get upset when I lose a character, sometimes excessively... But I love that rush more, that fear. If I can put any of you powerhouses feeling guilt at-ease, know that if you savagely destroyed my character with the swiftest and brazen RP, or even more rapidly but reasoned demise, know yes I feel pain.. But love every minute, and await the next when it comes. I hope to be at a point sometime where I can cause just as much for someone else and not feel that same guilt, but if I get to that point, I know it's possibile to help someone else break that barrier too. Until then, sorry if you step on a fluffball I hacked up while trying to live. ;o)~

Obviously I can't know the answer to that and shouldn't worry about it, but I do get that twinge of guilt, especially in cases where there's no resolution or aftermath to play out, like with a permadeath or similar situation.

My character was attempting to teach a lesson with violence to a relatively new character. The power went out at my house, and I RAN to grab my laptop and hop on a neighbor's wireless. I logged in and not having seen the message of the character going unconscious, I resumed the attack (did not type kill). My heart sank as I accidentally killed him. Halfway to getting him to clone, I saw the newbie alert.

If you're reading this, I'm sincerely sorry. I hope for better RP in the future.

However, when you spend 30 minutes RPing a scene about teaching a lesson to a character only to murder them at the end of it...what was the point? For the player? Yeah, it was entertaining, but now you've made it difficult for me to RP that my character, who at a minimum wont remember up to an hour ago, doesn't know the 'lesson' you were conveying. They only know they died. They don't know the speech, the good cop/bad cop routine you played, etc. Why bother?

Sometimes you gotta cover your tracks, sometimes you're not ready for an extra rival, etc. It's okay for that 30-60 minutes of RP to disappear from their IC memory. It's still there OOCly.

RE: "Why bother? Because we're all players entertaining ourselves and each other. It's OKAY for people to not remember it ICly.

Sometimes you gotta cover your tracks, sometimes you're not ready for an extra rival, etc. It's okay for that 30-60 minutes of RP to disappear from their IC memory. It's still there OOCly."

I disagree. If you're going to spend 30 minutes teaching someone a lesson ICly, only to kill them at the end, you're depriving the character of the a chance to grow. I am all for ghosting people when they deserve it, but the specific situation that was mentioned 'spend 30 minutes teaching someone a lesson and then kill them at the end' only makes sense if you got interrupted and had to cover your tracks.

There is a fine line between when you should beat someone down to prove your point and when you need to ghost them. It also depends on the archetype you are playing, or playing against. Gangers give no fucks. Don't expect mercy from them. A TERRA agent mind be less apt to snap your neck.

Consider both the IC and OOC reasons and repercussions of what you're doing for your character, the other character, and everyones fun.

Good enemies make great RP. Can't have good enemies if they're permed.

If anything, I'll think more "Right, how is this gonna backfire on me, and should I prepare for the worst?" but I don't really get guilty about it. I more think along the lines of how this will create that conflict we crave, will it be the RP we want it to be, will it bring more people into more plots and just how many bakas are gonna get creased because of this string of merry misdeeds my character has performed.

Sometimes, your IC feelings are reflected by your OOC feelings, human nature's hard to switch off like that and that's okay, sometimes. But occasionally we need to remember this is a game, and when we perm someone, they get a chance to try something different with their next character, something that they might not have had the confidence to do before, that their plot with your last character might have pushed them to the urge of trying. I don't feel guilty if I perm someone, I don't feel bad if I get permed by someone, I just think about how I can do things differently this time, to keep my next character as interesting to myself and others as I hoped my last one. In my year playing Sindome I've had my fair share of characters, most of them got really dumb deaths when they did get permed. (I won't reveal how because IC/OOC boundaries, but one was hilarious in particular.)

These things happen, we create the conflict we want and then sometimes feel bad when someone we didn't mean to fuck over got fucked over. But, chin up chums they get to try something new this time around. I always look forward to my characters getting into conflicts I should feel guilty for, and I always have my next character's base ideas there, things I might wanna try that I wouldn't on my current, usually inspired by events that took place with my current. Usually, this means the likes of I might have had a close relationship with a doctor, so next I might be tempted to try a ripper doc or a biomod surgeon.

Guilt is natural, but we need to remember that we're gonna kill each other in SIndome, it's a massive part of the game. So, I myself tend not to feel it when I just gotta make someone's life a misery.

I think of all the characters I've played over my time here, my current would be the one most likely to act in the way you've explained, where everyone is a potential risk factor and should either not be trusted, or taken out entirely before they become a problem. Especially if they witness something otherwise incriminating towards my character.

Unfortunately, not everyone sees the world the same way however, so not all of my characters will be that careful (or careless depending on your view.) We can't all be that shoot first ask no questions mano or mona, some have to be the thinkers, the plotters rather than the doers. Still, I digress from the topic. Guilt shouldn't be an issue when it comes to IC conflict, especially not OOC guilt, that tends to limit you in what you're truly willing to try out for the sake of truly good RP.

But boy is this game fun :D

Like you said, RP opportunities, conflict, and rivalry are chances for a character to grow. Climbing over other characters is stongly and vocally within theme.

But.

I'd like to make the argument that climbing over other character is not the only way to create RP opportunities, conflict, and rivalry. Adding textural depth, vulnerability, humanity, religious fervor, creativity, storytelling, character development, environment development, intrigue, exploration...these are all fun RP which can be the basis for IC goals which are (from what I can tell) in keeping with CP theme.

The reason I bring this up is that over a character arc of <10yrs, you will be faced with some of the hardest OOC guilt moments you can imagine. You care about your game, your community, and your own health. OOC guilt first came to me in the form of being told that I was known for killing a lot of characters, when that was not my character design (shit, am I failing at RPing a non-combat character?). The second most OOC guilt I've felt was after learning that my own work/play schedule was hurting others' chance at having fun and achieving their own IC goals. Both of these experiences have, with time, shaped how I play Sindome. You can browse many discussion threads about 'damn oldbies' in the forum archives, and you -do- have a choice about what kind you want to be. If anybody reading this is facing similar guilt, there is still a way to find OOC happiness in contributing ICly. Just be prepared to know not everyone will ICly respect you...and that may lead to OOC lack of respect. Be strong.

If SD only attracts & retains one kind of gamer then it might be a bit boring/ one dimensional. We're each going to have to do what it takes to separate the IC world from reality, for our own health & emotion. And I think we'll get a richer, deeper world because of it. Take care.

On the other hand, it could just be that my character feels everyone that's been fucked over so far deserved it. If our character can justify their actions does it make us feel better OOCly? I think it does - at least for me.

I hope that doesn't break the OOC discussion rule, but it helps me greatly.

Maybe you're the guy that's loud and drives rp that way. Maybe you've got a really cool niche rp going on with just a few characters. Maybe it's just a bit of a lull and you're using that time to craft some personal story that might benefit you later. That's all awesome. Maybe you're feeling stuck and need to shake it up! I think when we try to measure ourselves against other players, we get funny ideas about our own success. We all have different playstyles which makes the game cool.

That being said, manage your own guilt. Sometimes people do go too far, while others times people might overreact.

You can't 'win' at SD per se, so 'rolling with the punches' is a big part of the game.

Is this going to affect my life or RP? No. Did I want to vent about my experiences without being chastised? Yes.

At the end of the day, this is a bleed issue. And everybody has their own way of working through it, like a fingerprint.

(Edited by Ares at 7:57 pm on 12/25/2023)

For me, I think like nearly everything in life, moderation is important.

Violence, conflict and antagonistic actions will always happen. And often times they will get a reaction and set off a little to a lot of RP. But it's important to let a person breathe. Let a person engage with other people or other parts of the game. Always important to remember everyone connects to this game to play out an image they've got in their head, a story for their character. And while I've always described Sindome/text RPGs as interactive novels, because I feel they are: we don't have to be in every chapter of everyone else's book the whole time.

From personal experience I know how exhausting, trying and in the end boring it is to feel like others aren't ever giving you a chance to breathe or separate from the same type of conflict for a bit.

And so I keep that in mind with my own type of plots and conflict. I ask myself these kinds of questions. "Have I been piling on this person too much?" "Have I been inserting myself not only into conflict with this person too much, but other parts of their RP/social stuff/non-conflict plots they've been doing?" "Am I giving this person a chance to experience the game without my character hovering in some way?" "Has this character experienced a lot of consequences/fallout from other conflict/non-conflict RP lately, and could this be overwhelming to the player?" "How can I resolve this in a way that's agreeable to my character without harming that player's playing experience if they have been receiving a lot of consequences lately? Does it need to be done now? Or can I have my PC wait and circle back?"

And also speaking on the resolution part - be open to compromise to ending stuff. Maybe someone has a grand plan in their head about how they want their PC to be able to end a conflict with someone. I do sometimes. But that doesn't mean it's always going to or needs to work out that way. Unless it's something so severe there can't be a compromise, which I totally get, be open to having having the character compromise to come to an end and they still get their resolution/'win'.

I also think it's important to always have a reason to start conflict. Why would my character want to do this act? Why is my character upset? Why does my character want to target this other PC? And then - does my character only want to poke at this PC a bit. Is it a small grievance that can lead to some short RP that just creates annoyances for the person to amuse my character? Is it something major which needs large consequences? How large are the consequences?

Which is maybe better summed up with, "Does my character actually care about that or is that me as a player being annoyed? It's a city of 90 million people, are they really going to single one person out of two million making fart noises on sic right then?"

I probably shouldn't post at three AM after only being up for a bit, but essentially: Have an IC purpose that's stemming from IC reasons to be annoyed at something/want to change something rather than an IC reason that's stemming from an OOC reason about what should be happening in Sindome. Use moderation, give people a chance to breathe, and nearly always be open to compromise.

Extreme actions and violence are part of the game, but in the end it's my personal feeling you're either going to hurt yourself OOCly or others OOCly by thinking you (and this is a broad you, svetlana, not directed at you) need to wear the mantle of pushing all plots/violent plots for the sake of pushing those types of plots because 'theme'.

That's not counting the roleplaying I did with my brothers without even realising it was roleplay back when we were children.

You can't have engaging roleplay or narratives or stories, without conflict. If people don't want conflict, they should play the sims or something. In conflict, characters die, among a myriad of other far more arduous things to go through than instant death from a bullet through the brain.

I have done despicable things as characters. From intense, graphically violent rape scenes, beatings, torturing, Intimidation, I could go on and on. That was in Conan Exiles.

However, all of those times, I've made sure the other player was alright and given them an out at any stage. All they need do is break character and ask for a fade to black. I have never once come across someone who wanted me to stop or fade to black. Much of which I attribute to the fact that OOC, I made sure they were alright with things continuing if they took a dark turn and also always having the option to stop me with a single word. Not a single person I've roleplayed with, ever wanted me to stop what I was doing.

Maybe OOC communication is easier to do in games that don't involve guns and instant death.

I've never felt bad about what I was doing because it wasn't me, it was the character. Nor did any of my roleplay partners. The few examples above were even tame in comparison to other things I've roleplayed.

Of course over the years I've had bad times in roleplay as well, when someone gets salty or butthurt over losing combat. I remember one time even I was salty, calming down eventually. We're human, it happens. Instinct drives us forward in competition and to win. For someone to win, others have to lose.

As for people feeling guilt about their IC actions? To my mind, that is as much bleed as it would be for feelings to get muddled in romance roleplay between IC and OOC. We're not our characters, they are not us. Even though parts of them are because, we write them, after all. So some measure of how they act is seeping directly from our heads into their persona. They don't exist without us.

Not to mention, I think most people in these circles and interested in these types of settings, know what kind of world they're getting themselves into. Maybe some don't and just happen across it but the vast majority of us nerds, most certainly know what cyberpunk is. Especially with recent things like Cyberpunk 2077 and the anime 'Edgerunners' that made the game /even/ more popular. As well as all the fiction that inspired these settings to begin with.

I tend to start characters with a very basic set of traits and simple goals and build on it as situations come naturally through RP. I didn't plan for my current character to have the skillset they do, or even be involved in the circles/work that they do. It came about as a side effect of RP. Things happened around the character that changed their views/beliefs/shattered a perception/forced them to choose one thing over another - such as safety vs innocence. Before they knew it, they were compromising old belief systems in order to survive the things they fear or hate.

When you want to justify a previously taboo action, look for the things around your character that would push them to do that when they normally wouldn't. If you're thinking, "There isn't one." There is. Find it. It's your character so make it up. Their cracks and flaws are as real as you make them. Wanting to live up to someone else's reputation. Not feeling like you're doing enough. Guilt. Pressure from colleagues. -Money-. If nothing else, money is a great excuse to do just about anything. Morals don't let you be greedy enough to take an extra ten kay chy to put a cap in someone? Stop thinking of it like greed and think about starving to death if you don't take the flash. It can be as simple as that.

When it comes to RP, you can always invent a reason to compromise your character's standard actions. And before you know it, they set a new precedent that becomes a common action. You find you like it now that you've had a taste. Crave it. Or maybe it becomes something you abhor more and start to attack the trait in others where they didn't before. More conflict. How you look at events and spin your character's thoughts makes all the difference.