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Remove OOC-Chat
If you're OOCing you're not roleplaying

In my opinion OOC-Chat is the worst part of Sindome by a huge margin, and that is disregarding the content entirely.

I've never once been on it yet I notice the game suffering constantly for having it. I warn all players away from it, and I think no one is better for having it in terms of the quality of the game.

It's so obvious to tell when someone is spending time chatting away on OOC about whatever rather than roleplaying their character IC. We already have issues with getting people to do stuff, providing an outlet to let players spend time in game not doing IC things is counter-productive.

It's the well-spring of toxic bleed in practically all the drama that has spilled out OOC from the game in recent years.

It's horrible for Sindome's PR and image. Almost every negative outside review of the game is critical of the OOC community and OOC-Chat in particular.

It splits discussion between forums and live chat which has no record.

The majority of staff feedback seems to exist in OOC-Chat compared to the forums, lost to ephemera unless someone happens to post it to a relevant forum topic.

It forms extremely obvious player cliques that bleed into IC gameplay.

It often degrades IC SIC into memery and shitposting.

I know some staff like to chatter casually with players but I think in a game like Sindome which cracks down on every possible form of OOC communication or bleed, having this channel is utterly counterproductive.

While I don't fully agree with everything above, I do think OOC-chat is usually a suck of some peoples RP and also counter to every other rule we have about OOC communication. I understand its nice to have a vent from SD, but especially in the past it sucked a lot of peoples RP time in favor of chatting OOCly.
I joined ooc-chat very briefly and could tell it was not for me right away. It gave me the impression that it would be incredibly distracting and impede my ability to focus on giving my best RP forward in character. So it's best for me personally to not use it.

If there is indeed an overall problem with ooc-chat causing issues and distracting people from the game then I think it should be looked at, because it seems unnecessary to enjoy the game.

I like engaging people on the forums where the conversation is specific to issues with the game or constructive feedback and avoids crossing into ideological issues that may cause rifts in a community, and of course impact in-character interactions.

Just my two cents.

Thank you!

Silencing the community won't make it appear less toxic unless the community is less toxic to begin with. Even in the Forums I see a lot of crap that people complain about. Best thing to do is act like a civil grownup and respect each other. I personally don't ever really use OOC chat anymore. Once in a blue moon. There's already been a vote on removing OOC chat in the past or not. And it wasn't removed. But changes were made. I think that's enough.
From the few I read, most of the complaints were more about one specific person, not OOC chat as a whole. AFAIK that part's been dealt with, so...
A lot of these points seem like assumptions rather than facts. I like ooc-chat, it's good for just chatting with fellow players and just getting to know the community. I'd rather see players that abuse it be dealt with accordingly, and they usually are.
It's a double-edged sword.

I like it. I hate it. Normally I only pop in for 15 minutes at a time before disappearing, while I know others are always on it. I think if people are wanting a 'chat room' experience, they'll find it somewhere else. If it isn't on SD, whatever. I think people focusing too much on them affects them more than anyone, although I know it affects other people by them being distracted by it. So... I'd leave it a player's choice thing, as is.

Personally, I stay off of OOC chat. You will see me appear for literally like a minute following an obscure staff shout, and then I'm out. I have zero interest in global OOC, do not use local OOC at all in larger gatherings except to address mechanical things taking place (like a meta @lp), and keep local OOC to a minimum in very small private gatherings.

That said... if people are actually using and enjoy OOC chat. I think it should be kept around. Just because you or I do not use or enjoy it does not mean that we need to be dictating its existence for other players.

I would not be mad if it vanished, it seems like too many people sit on OOC and not IC, but honestly nobody but staff knows if folks are playing the game more or OOCing more. If they see it as OOC more then maybe that's a good argument to get rid of it.
I spend very little time on OOC-Chat, but I find it frustrating when some idea seems to get discussed there instead of on the boards. It makes me feel like either I have to have chat spam in my RP or else I can't be a full member of the community.
If you have never been on it yet or hardly use it, then I don't think you know much what you are talking about people, sorry.

However, this has been brought up before (in OOC-chat no less) so it seem pertinent to be discussed.

I wholeheartedly disagree, OOC is the one place where the community comes together with everything good and bad that comes from it. And it has improved drastically over the last few years.

From the 600 active players, a little less than 200 tend to be connect on that channel.

You don't need to get rid of it, we just need to be better and maybe moderators should be a hit harsher.

That's my outlook on it, and honestly if you took this away from the game it might make people like me and other look for another place that is more community minded.

And no offense, but several people who complain about these kinds of things tend to display an antisocial behavior.

I honestly rather enjoy xOOC. I'm not going to write a book about it, but I like being able to socialize with my fellow social club members.
OOC chat isn't something I want to pay attention to, because when I'm logged into Sindome, my focus should be on roleplaying my character and nothing else. I know that my ability to represent my character in an interesting way will suffer if I'm even slightly distracted.

And I've played enough RP MUDs to know that the best course for maintaining the game's integrity is always full separation from any OOC chat, in any medium. The Town Halls are a great exception.

As others have said, I also dislike feeling that I have to be connected to OOC chat to stay aware of and participate in discussions about the game's direction. I think forums are a better place for those discussions.

I am not trying to diminish community or togetherness in anything whether it be gaming, mudding or whatever.

However, I have seen folks come on and complain about life like to the point that if I heard them say that in real life and knew where they lived I'd have called 911 to do a wellness check on them.

I have played on muds with ooc and muds without ooc and I find that the ones without tend to have more engaged players actually playing the game.

90% of what we are doing when we are roleplaying is fashioning emotes or poses to display our character's style and message right? So sometimes I've even had to struggle to do that because it's a hot time in OOC and there is green text scrolling across like mad.

I do understand though that I could turn it off, but it makes me wonder if people aren't just logging in, oocing for a while, then logging off and getting the UE soak as if they were actually playing the game.

So I wouldn't say anyone is abusing ooc or whatever, and again, the staff are the only ones who can see player A logs on and actually DOES THINGS, or Player A logs in and sits in his cube/apartment and ooc's for an hour.

I think it's ultimately up to staff, but if I was asked to vote today, I'd vote no ooc and only gamehelp channel in hopes it would get more substance and action of character than substance and action of players via ooc.

Just my two cents.

Honestly I hate OOC chat and I rarely go on it. I often feel really frustrated when someone on the forums mentions game-related discussion taking place on OOC chat, because as others have said, it's lost to ephemera and we poor suckers who were focusing on RP during that time are unable to participate in that discussion, let alone see what Staff had to say regarding things people were bringing up in the chat. Oftentimes I see forum posts making references to OOC chat a few hours after they're posted, and when I try @rewinding the chat, all I see is useless chatter...meaning that the important discussion is lost to time. Maybe we should have a rule where all game-related topics should be relegated to the forums.
It's quite bad in many ways and it's continued existence despite harsh stances against OOC fraternizing in other ways is awkward to say the least.
I think the entire game should just be deleted and only xooc should remain. The actual game is very toxic and everybody treats each other poorly. OOC-Chat implements strict rules for us to be kind to each other that the game world simply lacks.
I disabled OOC chat about a year ago and haven't gone back.

The majority of the points that 0x1mm raised are accurate.

The cliques are real. I found that once I started getting along with players OOCly, I had more positive interactions with their characters ICly. Go figure.

I do feel like it is a detriment to the game. It exists as a blow off valve for people to destress and socialize.

I share the opinion that without it players would have to channel their energies into dealing with things ICly. It would also likely increase bleed pretty substantially.

My suggestion is to disable OOC chat for 6 months and see what happens. The amateur psychologist and social scientist in me is super curious.

My hypothesis is that we'd see a lot more aggressive and "negative" IC interactions, a few long term players deciding to take a break, and large increase in xhelps of staff having to arbitrate what would be objectively described as petty bickering.

Is there any way the Staff could temporarily disable it for a week or two and see how it goes? See if people feel relieved or claustrophobic about it being gone?

I think it may be a worth while test. Someone mentioned this being voted on before, but was that recent? I know these communities tend to fluctuate over the months and years, and it may be a completely or mostly different active populace now compared to then.

I really do this forums are way more constructive for discussions, gives people time to put more thought into their responses and avoids having them feeling pressured to respond quickly to keep up with the scroll.

In the last year, there has been significant efforts to make OOC much nicer, and frankly, if you haven't used it in the last 6 months, I don't think you can form a proper opinion on it. It's much different now.
I just don't want to feel like I'm missing out on important game discussion by having OOC silenced. It's so frustrating!
If you don't use OOC chat, how the hell can you vouch it's got all kinds of terrible, devastating effects on the game? How do you know who's using it, who isn't and how everyone is spending their time?
It strikes me as odd that the vast majority of complaints about the channel and it's supposedly toxic content come from folks who aren't even using the channel and thus have little to base the statements on.

I personally quite enjoy the xooc channel. It gives me a space to relax and remember that co-operative competition is a thing. It reminds me that behind each character my character meets in game is a real person who is just enjoying the game and doesn't mean me personally any harm, regardless of what our characters are doing there.

No IC information is shared, and I don't see any of the cliques people are talking about at all. I don't even know what characters the people I am talking to play, so I don't see how the friendships between the players could influence the actions of the characters.

At the very least, the channel keeps me engaged with the game even when rp is going slowly. Say for example my character is forced to lay low or is waiting for a particular character to log in to puruse a plot. The xooc keeps me tabbed into SD rather than hopping into another window and potentially missing your sic messages etc etc.

@mong

Your last statement made the point that myself and others are making.

OOC chat keeps you engaged (with OOC chat).

Without it, you'd have to find other ways to stay engaged while waiting for people to login or whatever.

That would be a good thing.

Get people who want / need to socialize off of OOC and out onto the grid, into bars, etc

2000% percent agreed with Hek. You should be engaged with the game, not fellow players in a chat room.
Yeah, I'll be honest, what Ghost and RedSteelButterfly have said, sums it up for me.

I'll preface this by saying I've been trying to word this as nicely as possible, so no offense is meant if any is taken. Words aren't my strong point, especially when hyped up on nap energy and sugar. These are also MY opinions, and I don't speak for the rest of the staff.

Simple solution, If you don't like it, don't use it. If you can't RP and block out the scroll, don't be on the channels that are giving you scroll.

Don't assume stuff if you've never been on OOC-Chat, similarly, don't speak for it if you haven't been on it in a year. It has changed a LOT from a year ago.

Don't assume it's OOC-chat that's taking up people's time if you're not on it and not sitting next to them IRL to see what they're doing.

From what I see personally, most of the people who are active in OOC-Chat are mostly always actively doing stuff IC.

As for feedback happening in OOC-Chat, I can understand that point. We do try to keep most ideas on the BGBB. Most of the time if there is a discussion on OOC-Chat it's someone presenting an idea before they put it in on BGBB, so stop being anxious that you're missing out. You're not. Most, if not all, people who took part in OOC-Chat, post about it again on the BGBB, but yeah, we do mostly keep ideas to the forums.

As for cliques and groups and IC being nicer between people? If you're putting that much effort into figuring out who's who? That's your fault and you should probably stop doing so.

@Mench

What's your thought on whether or not disabling OOC chat would increase player's interactions with each other ICly?

To be clear I'm not saying we should get rid of OOC-Chat because it's toxic (although it has that rep), or making any commentary on how players use it, or commenting on the content in any way.

I am defining issues with it that manifest outside of OOC-Chat and I directly experience despite the fact I don't use it.

I can see, in real time sometimes, players who are otherwise may be good roleplayers be more casual and unthematic and treat IC things as more gamey, or players who I know are otherwise very active players lapse into inactivity while they're online and then later see something on the boards about big OOC-Chat discussions/debates/memeing.

I see issues where I hear months later that some idea or game complaint with 1 forum reply was thoroughly discussed in OOC-Chat and got a staff response.

I see SIC go dead at peak hours with seventy player characters on SIC, and then see something later posted to the boards about a big OOC discussion.

I see what very much appear to be OOC memes/discussions/tones bleed into how players use SIC.

Do I know that at any given time any given issue is because of something on OOC-Chat? No. But I do notice a trend in the aggregate.

My point is it doesn't matter how its used, its existence alone is contrary to the design of making as much player engagement as possible an IC affair.

I entirely understand players wanting to have this channel, and consistently @voting to keep it. It's a significant advantage to any player to be plugged in to the staff-player discussion system and to foster OOC relationships, just as it would be a significant advantage to some players having their own Discord channel. But Sindome does not foster OOC community by design and I do not think it's an advantage to the game as a whole, especially when such strong efforts are made to limit this exact thing otherwise.

I also know I have a tendency to write novels on the boards and argue every point to the death, so I'll leave my thoughts on it there -- but these are things I've noticed not continuously, but with enough regularity over the last year or two that I do think it bears discussion.

You're assuming people can't multi-task. People who want to engage will engage. Sometimes people who have major roles may want to take a breather between plots, speaking with people IC, etc, but stay connected. And in those breathers they just chill out for a bit on xooc.

Also there's plenty of people who chat in xooc and while their character is talking to someone IC. Some people can't do those at the same time, that's cool, but don't assume everyone can't. I don't thin it'd seen an increase in engagement or activity IC if it was closed off. I think there's a lot of assumptions being made about the kind of people on xooc and the kind of players they are and their contributions to the game.

I type fast as fuck, fast as fuck and when I get on a tangent in xpol or ooc I lose track of what's going on in character and I know my RP suffers.

I don't think it's outside the realm of common sense to know that removing the ooc content of the game would improve the interaction in the game. Or possibly just get people to log off versus lurking in a cube/apartment.

Why not try an experiment and turn it off for a month and see what happens?

I think it's telling that while a lot of familiar names from OOC are saying "Yeah, it's not for everyone. Understand if you do or you don't"... There's a lot of people who say they never go on but also say that XOOC is the bane of the game and other people besides themselves can't handle the responsibility.
You're free to leave xooc for a month and see what happens for your gameplay. No one's forced to be on the ooc channels. I see a lot of people here taking their personal experience of what they can't do simultaneously and assuming everyone else cannot do it as well.

There's many reasons people may not be super active while logged in. Sometimes I need to take a breather to chill while still logged in, but I'm just browsing twitter, watching a show in the background or any other number of things. The xooc channel isn't dissimilar to any of those other chill/cooldown activities.

I think it's telling that the people who aren't currently on it often or at all left it for very toxic / meta-y reasons and some of those defending it have endured bans for reasons adjacent to many of the critiques presented.

If you want a community somewhere or a chat room, it's 2020, you're not lacking options. You're here to log on and play the game ICly or not.

Stiza maybe review the BGBB rules on shitposting and constructive posts. I know it's your schtick but it's not helpful.

I hope I didn't offend anyone with my post, I was simply stating my experience and the reason why I do not use ooc-chat, and trying to empathize with the people who find issues with ooc-chat and be supportive of their opinions on the matter.

I also understand the other side of the discussion and can empathize with the fact that it is a good thing for them, or maybe a neutral thing for them.

I didn't meant to make anyone upset by taking one stance over the other.

I hope you guys are able to find a comfortable middle ground that satisfies both sides of the discussion!

Good luck!

Wow, Jameson.

I should make a new thread about removing the forums for being toxic with that attitude :(

How do you know it's my schtick if you're not in xooc? 🤔
Let's not devolve into petty attitudes, please. Let's keep it civil.
To provide some perspective on the subject of 'multi-tasking' keep in minds staffers sometimes are puppeting 4+ NPCs simultaneously and having them emote and have conversations between each other while being spammed constantly on 10+ different channels, maybe even more.

Granted staffers tend to be the most adepts of players and it is not expected for the average person to be able to handle juggling with multiple stuff, but know that is entirely possible.

Staff doesn't have anything to do with OOC, they can shout OOC to the whole game world.

That's like saying Superman doesn't have to wait in traffic and flies, it has nothing to do with the general population of nobodies rolling around (Us).

Dear Volo, I think you are missing the point like you so often do.
That was shitty, Ghost. Let's listen to what Mench posted and try to remain civil. Most people are managing it in this thread even though there's disagreement.
@geigerbunny Sorry bunny, but if you where in OOC-chat you would understand this is not a first time occurrence. Also I disagree with you, just because someone can't see the forest from the trees its not my fault.
I value the feedback system of OOC-Chat because I catch about 10% of forum stuff these days. I don't have time for most long posts and the endless what-about-ism I see here all too often. You can blame me for things being discussed there.

And really, making assumptions about how it is today when you haven't been on it? And then making a whole post about your opinion based on a lack of information?

This post is filled with extreme far fetched assumptions and has a very cynical negative implication of the community, pining the OOC-Chat as the scapegoat or the reason for it.
If you feel like someone isn't RPing with you and spending too much time in OOC chat, maybe boop them with a local OOC and ask them 'Hey, do you mind if you put off the OOC chat for a bit so we can RP properly?'

I've also seen people leaving OOC chat and coming back after, presumably because they get involved in serious RP and don't want to be disturbed by OOC chat. People can self police, I don't think you need to tear down a way for the community to casually socialize with just to get people to RP with you.

Just ask, people aren't going to say 'no i only ooc chat >:c' and not want to play the game with you.

honestly the fact that people know who characters are purely because of xooc chat is so meta-y and one of my biggest problems with it @nyanchicken

its existence clashes so obviously with all of the overkill sd-exclusive ooc rules, yet generally its like, an accepted thing and i dont really get it, despite it shitting on the ooc/ic divide, though its not like players dont use other ways to skirt around the divide

i havent used xooc in seven odd months anyway, so i wont say anything about toxicity or its current state, even tho its totally surprising that people defending xooc immediately jump to being petty :^)

I'll be taking an excerpt from one of 0x posts, and discussing it as nicely as I can. in pieces.

------

I can see, in real time sometimes, players who are otherwise may be good roleplayers be more casual and unthematic and treat IC things as more gamey, or players who I know are otherwise very active players lapse into inactivity while they're online and then later see something on the boards about big OOC-Chat discussions/debates/memeing.

I see issues where I hear months later that some idea or game complaint with 1 forum reply was thoroughly discussed in OOC-Chat and got a staff response.

I see SIC go dead at peak hours with seventy player characters on SIC, and then see something later posted to the boards about a big OOC discussion.

-----

So in this, you're saying.. Important conversations happen in OOC, and it distracts people briefly from a GAME They like to play. Which is a game.. That they can pick up and put down at their leisure to do other activities, such as discuss thignsi n the ooc channel. For you to think that because they play the game, that they should play it with you at all times, or play it the way you ask, is asinine and selfish. People have other things they like to do. And ooc chat is one of them. And we do have important conversations sometimes. I feel like it's a good source of feedback for the Staff as well, since it's instant and more easily discussed.

--------

I see what very much appear to be OOC memes/discussions/tones bleed into how players use SIC.

------

This one really tickled me ugly. Because most of the time when OOC memes or tones end up bleeding into the game, It's not due to OOC chat, Trust me I spend a lot of time in OOC Chat, (and still find time to RP, mind) And most of the time when those memes bleed into sic, we groan about it, that it's not themely. What we don't do, is demand that sic be shut off because of one thing in it we don't like, or that we don't participate. I fully believe you are way out on a limb, or terribly salty about something to be wanting this. Or you really are that selfish that people can't play this game and also have lives outside of it, or directly adjacent to it in an ooc channel and be a little distracted from a.. and I stress again. GAME

counter-point

i post possums in ooc chat

this invalidates any and all arguments against it

1. Shit posting at each other in the forums undermines the very sense of community under discussion with OOC chat. No one's doing anyone favors by putting people on blast here, passive aggressively or otherwise.

2. I would guess I've spent less than half an hour total on OOC chat in my two+ years of tenure with Sindome. I knew it wasn't for me from the start - too much breaking of immersion for me, and I prefer to spend my time in xgame offering advice/learning things when I can. That said, I don't have anything to weigh in on here except as it pertains to useful information being missed (Which I can't confirm or deny either). I figure there's a fairly easy solution for that (If it doesn't exist already). It was said already that most major discussions end up on the BGBB anyway, so this might just be moot.

Create a forum section called OOC Topics under the Banter heading. Any major discussions that get a Staff response and/or could be useful to know about for the general population can check in here to see what they missed in the channel. I might even suggest they be locked from the start after the initial thread is created. Take what you read in OOC forum and check to make sure it isn't already being discussed in Ideas etc.

I feel that OOC-Chat really is an opt-in thing. I personally stay off of it unless I chose to be on it. Like when I have some downtime ICly. I think self management is best here. I do think that some wonderful conversations take place about game play every so often and that is the main reason I am on the channel in most cases..

When it comes to the board vs OOC-Chat I very much get the concern that people who are not on OOC-Chat don't get to be a part of or even read over some super illuminating discussions that can happen on OOC (sometimes even involving staff input). So the urge to move that to the boards is understandable.

My concern, however, is that the medium really seems to affect the quality of such conversations. I frequently seem discussions turn ugly on the boards while discussions on the same or similar topics tend to proceed more amicably on OOC-Chat. Not really sure why this is and it is, admittedly, honestly anecdotal, but it is a trend I have observed and is enough to make me wonder if moving all this the boards is really the best idea.

I frequently seem discussions turn ugly on the boards while discussions on the same or similar topics tend to proceed more amicably on OOC-Chat.

This is because over the last year or so a very large effort has gone into making OOC-Chat a less toxic place. Largely I think this has been successful but permeates less to the bgbb because there is less of a discourse built over time but instead post to post shouting matches.

I'm not saying OOC-Chat is perfect by any means but the secret ingredient is fucks given. It's a little childish and stupid, but then, so is Sindome. A good community cares about each other. I think if we all practice that - the rest will follow.

OOC-Chat was implemented as a necessary evil with the consensus that staff couldn't police OOC communication overall so it was better to provide a venue for it that was moderated and enforced @rules of the game.

I remain unconvinced the forums can't serve this purpose to better overall effect.

Setting aside the philosophical arguments surrounding OOC community vs IC immersiveness, I think all the positives of OOC-Chat could be folded into the forums if the investment made in OOC-Chat by players and staff was placed instead on the forums.

More active moderation and participation in the forums would correct some of the valid issues that have been raised about the boards, and would have the very substantial benefit of putting the community on even footing as far as discourse and staff feedback.

Disregarding my subjective view of OOC-Chat effecting IC roleplay, I think there is serious merit to consider about not splitting community discussion between two non-overlapping venues, especially when there are often clear lines of players who will participate in one and not the other.

The issue of persistence is not a trivial one.

Especially when there seems to be rules and game content discussions happening in OOC-Chat, which isn't persistent, searchable, and able to be referenced by and to new players.

I think Johnny already said that a lot of the code changes he discusses on OOC are chat are prompted by him asking folks questions.

And I've tried to use the search function on these forums, I'll put it polite and say it's "rough".

Personally, I don't really think that the options in @shortdesc are IC. It's an OOC piece of code that's offering the player a range of words that they want to use aside from the standard man/woman combination. Half the options aren't really going to further define how the character comes across and are subjective to wildly varied interpretations from characters walking by.

With that being said, I 100% agree that the extremely offensive and violently jarring nature of the theme and it's entirely up to the player-character in the question of where they go in-game. If there are areas of theme that you find offensive to your personal tastes, then you have the freedom of re-routing yourself around it and avoiding it altogether.

I have found some offense in the sexual orientation slang words in there, but it's really not the end of the world. Like a few other people have mentioned, I just gloss over it since I know it is what it is. But, now I want to go pop over into the ideas forum for...

Wrong thread. >.<
0x1mm brought up what I have been thinking about over the last few days, and that is the probability that removing OOC chat would just lead to more traffic in the forums.

I do not have any opinion about the content or current level of toxicity in OOC chat.

I think others have done a great job of emphasizing each individual's ability to self police the time they spend on it, or not.

For me there is a level of, I think cognitive dissonance with OOC chat. There are major prohibitions on OOC interaction riddled throughout the rules. BUT, here... have this channel where you can OOC all day long. It almost approaches the level of, "Do as I say, but not as I do." Either OOC communication is bad and counter productive, or it is okay. That said, life is not black and white and maybe OOC chat strikes the best compromise possible.

My experience has been that among other things, OOC chat and BgBB provide a pressure relief valve of sorts. They provide a place for people to do things like post memes about IC events, and gripe about issues they have with the game in an OOC manner.

I think removing them would result in one of two things. One, all of that energy that couldn't be channeled into passive aggressive memes (which admittedly have become less passive aggressive in the last year) and OOC venting would have to be dealt with in purely ICly ways. For example, the recent Purge discussion. When all was said and done, the community consensus seems to have been, "If you want to get any further into this topic, deal with it ICly."

The other thing is that people would be forced to just suck it up and deal with whatever they are unhappy with / wanting to gripe about. That having to suck it up and deal with it would lead to generally more angst and hostile, aggressive, themely RP. Nobody wants to be told to suck it up and deal with it, but that's more or a less a core tenant of the theme. Nobody wants to be told that they have to live in a depressing, depraved, craptastic environment that they have no escape from.

But that is exactly the reality that most of our characters live in. And every time we break that immersion, we do the game a disservice. I mean, it's good for our mental health. But it ultimately robs the game of its utmost potential. (Which is probably fine. This is a game, not some torture device. We can be 85% hardcore instead of 100% hardcore.) Life sucks, deal with. No OOC chat. Go cry a river into your rat noodles and kill someone. Boo hoo hoo. ;)

My one and only thing to throw out is this. Those who frequent OOC know that I'm never in there, to the joke that when I join people hush like the teacher just walked back into the classroom after break. I pop in once in a while to read backlog if required for knowing something. I don't discuss my ideas there, I don't hear the ideas of others there, I don't use the chat.

To me, OOC is a place for people to talk nonsense about Not Sindome. Good, Bad, it exists. If someone wants me to know an idea of theirs, they're going to put it on the BGBB, here, where I can read about it.

Dreamer summed up my perspective of OOC chat perfectly

To me, OOC is a place for people to talk nonsense about Not Sindome. Good, Bad, it exists.

To me, if people want to chat about Not Sindome, they should go to Not Sindome.

Sindome should be Sindome. Harsh, oppressive, unwelcoming, dangerous, filled with angst, betrayal, murder.

Screw getting along with each other. Or if we do want to get along with each other, let's find ways to do it ICly.

One last point to address is the 'lack' of public RP. One of the issues that new players raise from time to time is the seeming lack of characters in clubs and bars.

Veteran players understand that being out of the apartment is dangerous and therefore venture out only when they have to. Of course there are exceptions to that rule. But in general, being out and about is risky.

Again, OOC chat is a relief valve. It gives players the ability to socialize and get that dopamine hit of human interaction without the risk of running into their arch rivals and others who want to take advantage of them.

In an attempt to keep the conversation constructive, I will ask everyone who has read this.

How would your experience on Sindome change if you could not communicate OOCly via chat and BgBB? Would it make you angry? Would it make you dislike Sindome? Would you spend less time logged in?

I find myself thinking of

"You've never had the urge to kill yourself, until now."

If all OOC chat was a 'chat release valve', I wouldn't give two dead park rats about it.

What OOC chat has historically been for years: cliquey meta breeding ground and discussions about the game that should be happening on the BGBB where the community as a whole can take part 'in the light of day'.

I appreciate the staff has been pushing the game discussions to at least get some kind of post afterward if it seems warranted, but the worst part of OOC chat is wondering what 'game discussions' with staff feedback you're missing out on bc you don't want to deal with the requisite drek.

This isn't a serious complaint, but especially w/r/t Johnny, when I drop into OOC chat he's often in there both casually and regarding game discussion feedback, but much more rarely on the BGBB. I get he's busy and to quote him 'doesn't have time' for reading posts here or whatever, but you're the head of the show dude.

Staff feedback is basically gospel to the playerbase, and it seems pretty rare on the forums but pretty casual on the chat. Players shouldn't have to sit on an OOC channel to be 'in tune' to that. IDK if this is a staff apprehension to post here and be 'on the record' of sorts, or if because they're chatting on the channel they don't feel the need, or just being too busy, but as this thread shows, the players who want to participate in an OOC channel for whatever reason it limited, to bear in mind who that narrow audience is, please.

^ off base post is really fucking off base. I reply frequently.
I am kind of confused where this whole 'OOC Communication is Discouraged' is coming from. Sindome calls itself a social club. It's members socializing can't be all that surprising. As far as I can see, what is frowned upon is the OOC sharing of IC information - not players talking to other players in an OOC manner. Personal opinions may vary but that is what I see described in the @rules, website and help files. Maybe I am missing something here?

There are elements to OOC-Chat that can not be replicated on the BgBB as it stands now:

1. Synchronous chat is a richer communication method than asynchronous posting. The flow is different. More immediately interactive.

2. The content of OOC-Chat is not saved for all time. This may not seem important to some but it can be important to others. I kind of like having a place to chat OOCly where the things i say will not be on record forever.

3. OOC-Chat is in game. I personally prefer things that are in game. I'd rather not have to hop over to a discord chat or slack window or browser tab.

Ultimately, I am not a big fan of simply removing OOC-Chat. I would rather look into ways to try and address the concerns I see brought up here. But even that will be a challenge as we all have different priorities and preferences.

I like Grey0's suggestion. Why not move the OOC chat to the website? That way the OOC chat doesn't distract from in-game stuff, and you could contribute while not being in-game.

This could lead to a more diverse gathering. Plus, it could lower the in-game distraction level of OOC chat. I've seen scenes drag to a crawl due to OOC chat.

Or as an alternative, make it available on both in-game and the website. That would probably satisfy everyone.

It's not trivial to add a real time chat connected to the MOO on the website and it doesn't really solve much of the "issues", it'll still be an OOC chat but on a separate window / context.
Grey0: The thing you're missing in the 'OOC Communication is discouraged' is that you aren't supposed to RP with friends. You can't have close IC relationships with characters whose players you know, for the sake of fairness on the assumption you're more likely to help out a friend and less likely to backstab them. So whatever OOC socialization you choose to do comes with a price: you choose either your RL relationship with the person in question or your IC one. You can't have both.
What OOC chat has historically been for years: cliquey meta breeding ground

Be very specific please what you mean by this and what you're trying to say, because to say "xooc is meta" is to say that staff is complicit in rulebreaking by allowing that. I know you're not saying that so what ARE you saying?

Regarding people whose RP stops:

That's going to happen whether it's xooc, Netflix, the dog, OAN, Facebook, COD, SS13....

Taking xooc away won't make one whiff of difference. Like someone else said, people who want to engage IC will engage IC.

me when i actively form a clique in the ooc channel monitored and moderated by staff members

I tried hard not to comment on this thread, but I feel I need to debunk something.

I've never had an issue fucking someone over who I think I'm friends with on xooc. Plenty of the people I speak to on xooc have fucked me over too.

The spirit of the game is cooperative competition. If people aren't taking part of that because they have some sentiment towards someone on xooc, that's on them, not on xooc as a whole. Maybe they should learn to control their bleed.

xooc has never been something I've seen as a burden, and I didn't use it at all for my first 2 years of the game. Not using it, actually made me feel distant from the community overall, and not in a good way. However, being able to talk to other players, and staff on xooc has really brought about a new appreciation of the game and its community, and probably made me a lot more committed to it overall. I'd go as far as to say meeting a lot of the wonderful people on xooc has probably made me look at Sindome, and the way I RP on Sindome in a lot less selfish way, and probably made me think of the game in a significantly broader spectrum overall.

That's how I feel on it. Xooc has had its moments, but it's gotten better. It's never detracted from my RP experience, and those who are affected by it, can opt-out. It's optional, and definitely doesn't affect how you play the game at all, unless you're allowing it to.

Sorry for the big dump, but that's my 2chy's worth. Losing XOOC would likely have a significantly negative impact for me, personally. After all, it's the community that's kept me coming back to the game for the past 4 years, and it's the community who have inspired me to be a better roleplayer, and more helpful to others.

Also.

Rat.

All I want to say about this idea that xooc is cliquebait (see what i did there) is:

Not being on xooc has not stopped the people who aren't in xooc from knowing everything about what goes on in xooc and being pissed about it.

How does that happen, without OOC communication some place else? Some place unmonitored? Some cliquey place?

the absolute gigabrained power move of claiming that xooc is a corrupt hive of scum and villainy and backing it up with knowledge obtained from your cool kids meta discord

holy shit

Or maybe because local OOC still exists, people still connect to XOOC despite not actually liking it, or because OOC shit is constantly referenced on the boards and seems like obvious bleed into IC memery.

Let's cut the hackusations garbage out.

If there's ideas being discussed in xooc, it's because the points being brought up don't need to be broadcasted to the entire game.
me discussing the recent sindome bans (which players usually arent even informed of except in extreme cases im pretty sure) in local ooc in significant enough detail for it to be used as an argument on the bgbb