New Player Experience Suggestions

Some archetypes are going to be harder because of skills and stats than others. Whether it's because you don't have the skills you need, or can't get the equipment to do what you want, giving an indication on the degree of starting difficulty might be a really good idea."

For this, I've got some holdbacks. Adding a 'difficulty level' to things could lead new players in a herd toward the percieved/ranked 'easiest class'. I do agree it could be useful, but we must also weigh the possible outcomes doing so could bring. I think we would want players to branch out, be unique in their own way than subconsciously drift toward one solitary thing and overpopulate it.

What are your thoughts on this?

For instance, a Fixer could also be pretty sweet at decking. A Street Sam might know their way around trading.

Sticking to an Archetype, and not putting a unique spin on it with your own experiences and character adaptation is in my opinion fairly bland.

If a char does something enough, they should start to develop skill in that area, and in that regard you, as the player, should pump UE into things related to that. Seriously, if you haven't done this before (Which I 100% hope you have), try it. It makes for some weird, but more fun stuff appearing.

Play the game. It's gonna deal you bum hands, kick your ass, teach you that it isn't a fair game. But, when that diamond plot, that good RP session, that first kill, or first good death. Those moments of ass clench that reminds you that this theme is out to get you just as much as you're out to get it hits. You'll be golden.

Live on the adrenaline of your latest sleazy scam. If it fucks up? Don't be disheartened, approach it from a different angle. You die? Oh well, shit happens. You perm? Yay, you get to try your next cool char idea.

Keep a backup idea ready for chars, we never know when we'll perm. Keep a backup idea for your backup idea.

Don't follow what you think is meta, it either isn't, or it's not fun. RP first, UE second.

Be Cyberpunk, and walk safe.

Ryuzaki, I really like what you say in your post. Yes, that should be good advice for anyone. Learn, make mistakes, RP failure, live the journey, and have fun with it.

However, there is a difference in mechanics and RP. I think my biggest issue when I started is that the mechanics of the game did not fit what I thought was going to be my RP. I was asked to look at archetypes, I chose one, and my play experience was nothing like what I had chosen.

For me, I had enough fun that it didn't matter. I met some brilliant people who showed me the promise of the game (staff and players). For some, they just shrug and walk away, or complain on Reddit... I guess all I'm saying is that for a first time player, there is an expectation that you are going to do one thing, and then when you play, that may not be even close to what you are going to do.

Personally, I don't see how a lack of basic information enhances anything for a new player. Unless the intent is to weed out people who have a propensity to leave quickly, then it makes more sense. However, I would think if you want to cultivate new people and grow more; then letting people have a better expectation on what is going to happen for their FIRST experience with both the community and the game might be a good idea.

This is not game breaking knowledge, it's something that anyone who plays for a couple weeks can figure out. "I'm going to start again with someone whose skills and gear won't be readily useful for a while, check, I'm in for the long haul!" So if is okay for people playing their second or third character to have this knowledge, why is it not okay to give it to a player who you want to have a good FIRST experience?

While I am a programmer by trade, I have frequent contact with sales. One of the salespeople's sayings, and it's very true. It doesn't matter if you are saying something good or bad to the customer, just that you set expectations on what you are going to do moving forward. People feel upset if they expect Chocolate Pudding and get Weetabix. For the OP of the Reddit thread, they felt strongly enough to leave, maybe good, maybe they would have been a brilliant asset moving forward if they got a chance to experience more.

They get obsessed with mechanics, because they just want to win. They think they will find a cookie cutter foolproof recipe that will guarantee them success. Which ends up being counterproductive really. These kinds of people don't get it.

The truth is that RP trumps mechanics, players are only as strong as their RP. I've seen new players accomplish with RP in 3 weeks more than others in 3 years.

Learn the genera and the themes, try to understand how the world works and use that to embody the characterization of your game person through RP. This is a cyberpunk game, you need to become a cyberpunk.

There is no real blueprint, you are given the freedom to make your own path.

Honestly SD has never been that kind of game, if the staff wants to change that in the future its up to them. Would having OOC guides make the game more popular? No doubt. Would it make the game more boring? Absolutely.

If you had unrealistic expectations about what your character was going to be off the gates, then you didn't bother to read carefully the newbie guide and help files, because right there it tells you that you aren't going to be a badass. Maybe the language should be changed to make it even more bluntly clear.

The truth is that new characters are pretty much blank slates, its up to each and every player to decide and work on what that character evolves into. So maybe, take some responsibility for it?

Every single player has had to struggle, its part of the game and its part of the theme. The people who make it aren't special snowflakes, they just put in the work and just like anything that is worth a damn, it takes a little bit of time to learn it.

I was pretty annoyed when I learned the archetype I picked out of chargen had very bad career prospects just a few weeks after coming onto the grid, and almost a year later I have used none of the skills I spent my initial UE on.

What kept me playing was my attachment to the RP and the desire to try new things, eventually I found out what I really wanted to do after getting a lot of advice IC.

"Real life doesn't come with a guide and neither does SD and if it did have a guide, you would have to find it IC. Why? It fuels RP. This is a role-playing game, but I see a lot of players (both old and new) focusing more in the game parts and not so much in the RP parts."

But you are not starting out as a blank slate. Characters in this game are already starting having some background. We have history and have at least done something with the X years of our lives. If my history said that I was previously a gunfighter, then my character should have some idea of what it takes to be a gunfighter.

New players don't get this information. As a player, I don't know what skills, stats, equipment or things that I would need to do to make my gunfighter work in Withmore. If we are modeling RL, my character shouldn't need to ask that information, at least the basics of it. My character has nominally done this already and should have some idea on what they need to do it.

"They get obsessed with mechanics, because they just want to win. They think they will find a cookie cutter foolproof recipe that will guarantee them success. Which ends up being counterproductive really. These kinds of people don't get it."

I might cop to the first, but that's because what I chose seems very obtuse and I still have done little with my chose archetype even trying to get into it very religiously. I'm getting closer, but I'm not trying to win anything. What I did want, was to have a story about a character who was an archetype. I'll get there, but as my first experience, that has been rough.

"Learn the genera and the themes, try to understand how the world works and use that to embody the characterization of your game person through RP. This is a cyberpunk game, you need to become a cyberpunk.

There is no real blueprint, you are given the freedom to make your own path."

Then perhaps the issue is even suggesting archetypes. As I mentioned, there are expectations. If you tell me that I am building a Medic, I kind of expect to do medicy things. If I'm a decker, then I expect to do computery things. That's not to say I expect to win or be the best, but those ARE cyberpunk themes and I sort of expected I'd get to do them in a cyberpunk game. Now I realize that I will be able to do them in time... but what I ended up was nothing like the Cyberpunk archetype I chose. So why did I chose an archetype at all?

I think as a new player experience it would have nearly been better to say. Do you want to be Brainy, Strong, Quick...etc. Then a explanation that you shouldn't expect to really be anything out of the gate and that you will form what you are over weeks and months of play and RP. Now the expectation I have matches what I get when first sign in and play the game.

"If you had unrealistic expectations about what your character was going to be off the gates, then you didn't bother to read carefully the newbie guide and help files, because right there it tells you that you aren't going to be a badass. Maybe the language should be changed to make it even more bluntly clear"

There is a very BIG difference in not being a badass and not being able to do anything related to your archetype. Again, if I'm choosing and reading about an archetype I kind of expect to have RP and gameplay reflecting that. I did read the newbie guide and did not have any illusion as to being "powerful" or a "badass". I made my history so that my character was new, young and inexperienced. I put in cues as to why they might be so. Even so, it was a big shock as to what I ended up for the first few weeks.

The truth is that new characters are pretty much blank slates, its up to each and every player to decide and work on what that character evolves into. So maybe, take some responsibility for it?

I kind of think that this is disingenuous. I agree on the blank slate, but we're not telling people they are going to be a blank slate. You are telling them to choose between a number of archetypes and letting them assign skills and stats. That's not a blank slate.

If it is okay for people to create a character with knowledge gained from playing for some time, then why is it not okay to give some of that basic information to new players?

Every single player has had to struggle, its part of the game and its part of the theme. The people who make it aren't special snowflakes, they just put in the work and just like anything that is worth a damn, it takes a little bit of time to learn it.

I don't think that's part of the Cyberpunk theme at all. No where in any Cyberpunk novel or story that I have ever seen was a person so completely unaware of who or what they could do. It's not theme to roll a Decker and have no idea how to use a computer. Or it's not theme to roll a Medic and not know the first bits on medicine. Those are game choices IC/OOC barrier choices, mechanics choices... not theme choices. You are not less Cyberpunk because you let people know that playing one archetype or another might be harder for your first playthrough.

All I was asking was a little more information to be considered for NEW players. Again, this is not secret sauce. If I play for 2-3 weeks and booth to make a new character, no one is worried that I now know that some archetypes are going to challenging out of the gate. No on is worried that I know how to open a door and probably won't RP asking that. No one is upset that I have a better idea on how to make my vision come true.

My thought is that you might have better player retention and acceptance by better aligning the expectations to the actual experience.

Also, letting people have some idea on what gameplay might be like early and late for that archetype. That way they have an idea on what they might be up against and can choose something that might interest them more. They stick around and hopefully see the really cool bits of the game.

I think ideas that have been mentioned for giving more specific examples of what you might do in a given archetype at earlier / mid / later times in your character's age are excellent. As someone else said somewhere, it's all about expectations.

I don't think Ephemeralis' ideas about giving new players a few more sprinklings of IC direcition related to their possible archetype are terrible or completely ruin our golden FOIC directive. We already tell immigrants coming in not to fuck with gangers, like seriously don't do it (instead of letting them FOIC). Though I think most skills are self-explanatory, others are definitely not for our game mechanics, and giving someone a nudge on maybe what their electro_tech or systems skill might give them a general value to someone else for, if they stick around and RP etc., wouldn't be the worst thing. Literally adding a few words here and there to the help (skill) files could be huge, IDK.

Any kind of 'starting equipment' doesn't work bc cyberpunk and people would just farm immigrants for stuff.

I guess to summarize:

If you want the game to be blank slate make your own story, then tell people you startwith nothing, give them no starting skills/stats. That's blank slate and my expectations are that I know nothing and won't expect to be anyone.

If you introduce people toarchetyes and have them make history, assign stats and skills, then they aren't a blank slate. I'm something. Maybe not good, but I'm starting as something or an idea of something. For a new player that's where the disconnect occurs. Even then, you often are not that something and likely won't for a while. Giving information that this is the case helps the person know what to expect.

First, it is hard to say that Archetype A as hard and Archetype B is easy. Even if everyone used the archetypes exactly as presented (I doubt many do), each player is different. Some might find the social aspect of playing a fixer a nightmare while others would thrive with it. Some might find the fast paced commands needed for combat and rushed escapes overwhelming while others might excel it it and love it.

Second is that I disagree to a large extent that everyone coming out of character gen is a blank slate and of little use. Sure, if you compare them to a 2.5 year old character they are negligible in a direct stat/skill rolloff. But they are perfectly capable when compared to other characters of their level (I hate to use this term). It's why so many try and hand off easy jobs to other less capable characters as they rise in power.

I personally feel that every character you create should be a character you could see yourself happily playing for a long span. Yes, while you might unintentionally invest in a skill/stat you did not really want/need and didn't know it until later but that will be made less consequential in time. Eventually, once you feel that your character is pretty much set build wise, you can respec and recoup those 'lost UE points'. This will, of course be far down the road but it won't be a net loss in the long run and is really just a small setback in the beginning. Instead simply be prepared for the loss of a character and be ready to rock that next fun idea that you might have.

While I do think Sindome could improve on what info they present to new players I think that this will never really result in the level of impact we might think. A lot of players do not read the help files we already provide. Those who do are likely to have far smoother starts in Sindome. Again, not saying that we can't improve help files and @newbie and what info we present to player but we can't make them read all that.

Everyone else: thank you for taking the time to post, and please remember that we DO want to improve this experience and constructive feedback is ALWAYS welcome.